Can you imagine Noah telling God: I can’t build the ark, I don’t have the internet to tell me how to build it.
Uh, that would be a big fat nnnnno. Yet we do have the internet that tells us he didn’t build it, or couldn’t build it. Meanwhile, the ship was more than sea worthy, as its construction had the blueprints of He who created water.
The short-sighted and selfish opinions of men who dare challenge God as to His doings, is distressing to say the least. I had a grown man once who happened to be some kind of engineer tell me that the table I painted, was not painted. A compliment to be sure, but his deceived persona was annoying as I only smiled.
Some people just don’t get it, and never will. God’s word is good. God does not consult with Dow Jones or NASDAQ to see if He needs to change something. The Dow will no doubt be in earthly awe when the ‘mark of the beast’ hits the streets, and people will pull their hair out because some will lose, and others win, as this paperless/buying/selling/ trading/ and money thing, which by the way, was told of thousands of years ago, and long before Bill Gates was in diapers, becomes the topic of the day, hitting every media circus on earth.
And of course the internet will once more be abuzz with the professional opinions of fools, with headlines such as: COMMON SENSE FINALLY COMES TO TRADING, or: THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF THE MARK, or: THE GERMAN MARK RETURNS, and of course the whole world will applaud such economic and societal breakthroughs. Or so they think.
But they will continue to mock Noah, God, his word, His promises, grace, truth, they will have utterly destroyed the truth of God’s rainbow in the heavens, decadence will be multiplied, pure evil will be enjoyed, and everything that is OF God will be dubbed: ANTISCIENCE! Hilarious but pitiful.
And oh, then there is Israel, which will be labeled as the bane of all progress and is the reason for all the woes on earth. So an alert mind can readily see that whatever the topic on the table, be it Noah, rainbows, buying, selling, the nation of Israel, the end game is an assault on scripture generally, and an affront to the only God of heaven in particular.
But one can always avert such nonsensical influence, and see that God’s word is ever and always good. But the ship of fools? It’s the USS DEVO, in which holds all passengers who will definitely drown…….but it doesn’t have to be. (aka the little god science and devolution)
May I suggest a mutiny against the captains of atheism and evolution? Better yet, the true Captain of life bids you welcome, and sets a table prepared for you. Will you accept the invitation, and agree that the pride of life has caused your deafness, or will you pretend to play the violin as the ship of fools sinks….
The Lions Den 
Excellent CS—nope…don’t think God needs google to sort it all out… 🙂
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Ship ….of …..fools, in my opinion, has grown over time to planet.
Regards and goodwill blogging
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I’m guessing K. Solomon would agree.
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@scatterwisdom
Spaceship Earth we call it. Funny thing is it just goes round and round and spins and spins. Never seems to go anywhere its Creator did not plan for it to go long ago.
🙂
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Well said. Like how that ark that God built stayed intact, while the Titanic that man built sunk. As our engineering advances, so too does our greed, our desire to take short cuts, to substitute cheap goods,and our failure to look out for ice bergs ahead.
There’s a song I still kind of like, “Ship of fools” by World Party,
“We’re setting sail to the place on the map
from which no one has ever returned
Drawn by the promise of the joker and the fool
by the light of the crosses that burned.
Drawn by the promise of the women and the lace
and the gold and the cotton and pearls… “
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Sweet. Titanic built by professionals.
It’s been said that all modern ships are built on the specs of the ark. Of course God’s dimensions would be cargo friendly, sea worthy, and above all, structurally perfect.
But why some have no interest in the rrrrrest of the story. Lol
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It’s been said that all modern ships are built on the specs of the ark. Ha Ha very funny CS.
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As to length, width, height, the proportion will always be correct.
That is n, if you don’t want to sink. It’s kind of obvious that the Creator knew what He was doing, but this fact no doubt escapes you.
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Plenty of boats around before the Noahs ark story CS, canoes have been found that were constructed somewhere between 8200 and 7600 BC. By around 3000 BC, Ancient Egyptians knew how to assemble wooden planks into a hull. However, around 1300 to 1000 B.C. “The Epic of Gilgamesh” was to have taken place, you should have a read of this because they knew how to build a big boat exactly like the Ark even then and this guy Gilgamesh was a really interesting king.
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Oh brother. The ‘Epic’ also proved there was a flood. Obviously that was the reporting of the best they knew, but scripture gave details that were only knowable because of the source.
Deal with it. Perhaps you need to board a liner and get lost in the incomprehensible volume of water.
And the post here is about the truth of scripture in ALL its aspects, of which the family of Noah is one small part.
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Gilgamesh was somewhere in the neighborhood of nine feet tall. Relative of Goliath, perhaps?
What was interesting about Gilgamesh? He died a fatalist, believing this life is all that there is.
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Hi Doug-
As I’ve said on many occasions, it appears man is DEvolving. The internet is such proof.
And I never met a child (of any age) who found me short of wit, charm, and just all around good nature.
Heck, I could tell the tale where it was said I was directly responsible for inspiring a kid to learn how to juggle. Today he can master 9 count them NINE balls. True story.
So yeah, it’s a shame I have contact w/ children. Not boasting, you just need put in place.
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Wonderful… but telling kids that evolution if a lie is a lie.
Which makes you a liar.
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Maybe you can cite the date, time, and place where these alleged ‘lies’ occurred.
Was talking to several adults last nite, (learned medical personnel) and the topic of snowflake popped up.
Naturally, I gladly referenced such awe to the creator of nature, in which a solitary flake in its magnificent design reveals the utter contempt for ,accidental serendipity,’ aka, evolution.
All nature reveals the glory of God, and the truth of scripture agrees with nature. As I said in the post, scripture presents truth in many aspects, whether you agree is up to you.
If you want to live a life in the fog of Darwin, go ahead, but I won’t tell u to stay away from children. If they are honest, truth will reach them S revealed in logic, facts, common sense, true science, and of course scripture.
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Gladly! Every time you cite creationism.
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You don’t know the definition of “lying”? Of course, you do.
If someone believes something, then they are not lying when they say what they believe is true. So ColorStorm is not lying. We know he believes what he is saying. You, on the other hand, must know that ColorStorm is not lying. The definition “lying” is not that complicated. Therefore, you are guilting of making an accusation you know is untrue.
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Fair enough:
Then I shall rephrase, and if you feel confident to speak for Colorstorm then you can reply and make answer for him.
As someone such as Colorstorm would use/accept similar criteria regarding the veracity of other scientific claims, and based on his acceptance of other proven areas of evolution – the dog having evolved from the Grey Wolf, for example, and domesticated around 130,000 years ago, then yes, to then still deny evolution, and still promote creationism simply because it conflicts with his religious beliefs is either lying, or a form of mental illness.
I will leave it up to you, Tom, to decide which.
Regards
Ark
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ColorStorm is a big boy. He can speak for himself, and that is all I am doing, despite your lame attempts to make it appear otherwise.
Do I agree with ColorStorm about the veracity of the stories told in Genesis? We probably differ in some respects, but we both accept Genesis as literal, not allegorical. I just think we are too dumb and ignorant to understand exactly what God did. Nobody ever taught me how to create something from nothing in science class. Did I miss something? Did you have that lab exercise?
I think the Genesis account leaves out lots of details because those details would just confuse us. I am not even certain a “day” in Genesis is a 24 hour day. Some scholars say that it is, but what is a “day” to God? A thousand years?😕
That said, when you claim the Theory of Evolution is proven science and act as if believing otherwise is lunacy, I just think you are behaving like a fool. You were there? Of course not. Yet because you cannot tell the difference between scientific proof and reasoned supposition, you run around calling others mental cases.
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Interesting. You accept Genesis as literal when every single piece of scientific evidence refutes such nonsensical beliefs.
How many fossils of pre- Cambrian rabbits have been found?
Evolution is fact. We have dogs as living proof and the dna confirms it.
So, one has to ask is your denial willful ignorance,or perhaps you suffering a form of mental illness?
Of course, I accept that you would not likely recognise this if you were.
But on what grounds do you deny the existence of over 300 species of dogs?
And if you not deny this, and claim you are not suffering any form of mental illness then what else is left? You must then be simply lying through your teeth.
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I’m sorry ark, but you are drowning in ignorance trying to out battle believers with your saganesque paganesque unsupported theories of zillion year guesswork, next thing you will do is say Nazareth was not a town in the days of Herod or Pilate.
Geez man, you are embarrassing yourself around here.
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So you have evidence of dinosaurs and humans coexisting?
Please share.
You have an answer for the evolution of the dog from the gray wolf or at least a common ancestor?
Feel free to provide evidence.
Oh … what a moment … evidence isn’t your thing, is it?
Let me guess … what was it? Your god’s word never lost an argument with an ant?
Smile
Liar or Lunatic, John, you tell me which one are you?
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I hope you never face me in a court of law doug, EVIDENCE is my specialty. 😉
Btw, love your ant reference. Saw an underground colony the size of Manhattan, with an army larger than the Chinese, wow what organized leaf carriers, what work ethic.
Ok, slight exaggeration, but the network spoke of innate design and EVIDENCE of a mastermind…………….
(I don’t eat dino bait, I find it leaves a stale taste with no calories)
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I’m pretty sure that the ‘ship of fools’ is laden with enough information already. Maybe read again.
‘Short sighted and selfish opinions,’ are they which deny the Maker of water His place in His own creation. All following along here reading can see your dilemma.
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Immediately you are faced with anything you are unable to answer, without exposing the fallacy of your belief, – in this case, something fairly straightforward as dogs and their ancestor – you fall back on ridiculous rhetoric.
Such tactics merely reinforce the assertion that you lie.
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You remind me doug of the blind man healed of his defect, and instead of people being happy for him, they accused him of lying. The thought never crossed their mind that he was telling the truth. This sounds like you.
He had no reason to lie doug. Lying is reserved for the mischievous, the thieves, and all other such.
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If you consider my position untenable then provide the evidence to support the co existence of dinosaurs and humans.
You purport not to be telling lies and that you are no suffering a mental illness then surely you must have some sort of answer?
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Perhaps you should consult with someone who will likely give you a more agreeable answer, one who will flatter your ego and strengthn your pride, one who will provide you with every bit of false science you can handle:
Bill Nye the science fraud, who lectures you can see ‘disappearing ships over the horizon’ at three miles because of the curve………………….
………….yet he is completely clueless as to vanishing points, refraction, lensing, and mirroring, so please do not lecture me on science.
I know false science so-called from science that is observable, testable, and repeatable, I recognize empiracal evidence, this is why I am a believer and you rely on hearsay and unprovable theories.
This is why atheism attracts you doug, not because it is true, but because it confirms your pride.
‘Ship of fools!
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It has nothing to do with ego or pride, and I am quite willing to alter my view, I assure you.
All you have to do is provide evidence that refutes the science.
I have asked the straightforward question: Explain the 300 plus dog species and their ancestry?
You simply refuse to engage.
I have asked for evidence to show humans and dinosaurs co-existed – a bedrock claim of Young Earth Creationists.
You refuse to engage.
As the science of DNA and molecular biology refutes your Young Earth Creationist assertions how is one supposed to treat your (lack of ) responses?
If you are not suffering any sort of mental illness then how is one to think anything else other than you are telling lies?
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Unless you come to terms with sin and its effect on creation, how on God’s good earth can you understand anything?
Uncomfortable facts to be sure, but this is why you can never invite a black bear to your dining table
He will tear your head off after he eats another piece of pie. And you mention the word ‘mental illness’ one more time, and I will show you I do have my wits by erasing every comment here of yours. 😉
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Perhaps you should consult with someone who will likely give you a more agreeable
answer, one who will flatter your ego and strengthn your pride, one who will provide you with every bit of false science you can handle:
Bill Nye the science fraud, who lectures you can see ‘disappearing ships over the horizon’ at three miles because of the curve………………….
………….yet he is completely clueless as to vanishing points, refraction, lensing, and mirroring, so please do not lecture me on science.
I know false science so-called from science that is observable, testable, and repeatable, I recognize empiracal evidence, this is why I am a believer and you rely on hearsay and unprovable theories.
This is why atheism attracts you doug, not because it is true, but because it confirms your pride.
‘Ship of fools!
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There is a method to science. What you call evidence is just data. To make sense of data, we form hypotheses. To prove our hypotheses, we perform experiments. Those experiments established the relationships that we say exist in our hypotheses.
What the Theory of Evolution lacks is experimental proof. Still, you want to believe it, but you can only claim to believe It is your own doubt that makes you angry.
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Again, explain the diversity of species of the domestic dog and its heritage.
The fossil record – please explain it?
Provide evidence of dinosaurs and humans co-existing.
Thanks.
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You sooooooooo want to try to trap believers don’t you ark, and are insistent in your snarework, on a post that specifically asserts that God owns all blueprints, not the Carnegie Science center full of plastic bones.
You just don’t get it. Willful blindness perhaps.
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Trap? No. I simply want you to provide evidence that explains something as straightforward as the number of domestic dog species and its ancestory.
And also, to provide evidence of the co existence of humans and dinosaurs.
This is a claim of Creationists so the evidence should be readily available.
You are a Creationist so where is the evidence?
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Provide evidence that King Darius lived. Provide evidence that it snowed a thousand years ago. Provide evidence that water was wet 3 thousand years ago. Provide evidence apes built the pyramids…………..oops, apes did build the pyramids…….. lol
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As far as I know, there is only one species of the domestic dog. We have not managed to breed any new ones, but we have manage to mess up the species. The dachshund really is a sad excuse for a dog.
The fossil “record”? I don’t know. When there is already plenty of speculation, why do I need to add more?
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Ah… I knew you were going to say this! A classic Creationist hand wave.
And still didn’t address their ancestry!
What fossil speculation are you referring too?
I am asking for the fossil evidence that humans and dinosaurs co-existed as is claimed by you Young Earth Creationists.
EDITOR PREFERENCE WHILE NOT TOUCHING THIS COMMENT:
PLEASE STOP IT. WE HAVE HONESTLY ADMITTED THAT WE WERE NOT THERE ON DAY ONE OF CREATION. WE DON’T KNOW HOW OLD THE EARTH IS. FIND SOMEONE ELSE TO PLY YOUR WILES TO. PERHAPS DEGRASS THE CLOWN CAN HELP YOU.
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You I would make a logical response? Duh!
I think this foolishness is exhausting ColorStorm’s patience. Enjoy the New Year!
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Your willful stupidity is why Creationism is not taught in schools.
Yes, Tom, you are a liar.
EDIT: CTOM IS CORRECT. I DO NOT HAVE THE PATIENCE OF JOB, AND PER MY PREVIOUS COMMENT, I SAID IF YOU MENTIONED ‘MENTAL ILLNESS ONE MORE TIME………..’ YOUR COMMENTS WOULD GO BY THE WAYSIDE.’ I have therefore kept my promise, yet you persist, albeit the accusation of ‘liar’ is just as bad.. Maybe some time in the ‘time out corner’ will do you some good, but do take this as an invitation to wait for another post.
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Your willful stupidity is why Creationism is not taught in schools.
Yes, Tom, you are a liar.
EDIT: CTOM IS CORRECT. I DO NOT HAVE THE PATIENCE OF JOB, AND PER MY PREVIOUS COMMENT, I SAID IF YOU MENTIONED ‘MENTAL ILLNESS ONE MORE TIME………..’ YOUR COMMENTS WOULD GO BY THE WAYSIDE.’ I have therefore kept my promise, yet you persist, albeit the accusation of ‘liar’ is just as bad.. Maybe some time in the ‘time out corner’ will do you some good, but do take this as an invitation to wait for another post.
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Here’s your theology in nutshell:
You recognize no one greater than yourself. You don’t recognize the Creator because you are god, small g.
To be pitied. Btw, there is more true science in scripture than could be written by all your godless heroes combined, including Degrass the clown, Nye the liar, Dawkins,
Hawkins, etc, combined.
Again, this post proves the truthfulness of scripture in every regard. Newsflash: cashless society predicted long before the printing press was invented. Of course, as He who is outside of time said so.
Time to wake up!!
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Unable to support a single belief? Ha, it’s called life, and scripture confirms my truthfulness.
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And there you go again …
I said provide evidence and you immediately cite scripture again. You might as well cite a Harry Potter book.
Now, you can use this excuse all you like but it is simply lying, and this makes you a willful liar.
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When u ask for evidence, yet deny the only evidence nessary, is your problem not mine.
The scriptures ARE the evidence. The truth does not care if u agree.
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The scriptures are man made and do not support any of the sciences. Neither does evidence from history support them.
It isn’t my problem: you have to face the realty of a world moving more and more toward secular humanism.
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Man made? Ha!
As if ‘science’ has one whit of registered trademarks to the foundations of the earth as revealed in scripture.
Scripture perfectly presents mans origin, history, purpose, past affairs, current affairs, and of course our destiny.
No guesswork. No pretended theories or lame assumptions. Just as I already proved in this short post.
Scripture IS the evidence. Why? Because God’s word is good and He most certainly is worthy of trust.
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Ah, yes. Made from dust and rib.
No sex necessary, no mating with other primates.
As the Doobie Brothers once sang.
”And a fool believes …”
And you are the believer, are you not?
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Did you ever ask yourself doug WHY man is completely different from another, as opposed to a million jackals who all look identical? Does the thought ‘creation’ sound familiar? That is, why can you recognize Johnny Cash from Johnny Depp, yet be lost as fog as to identifying mama from her llamas, yet know perfectly who are the Mamas and the Papas.
So dust? Yessir. Courtesy of He who made an earthly being, but with a soul. And Evee? Yep, the perfect mate in every way. Then there was that naming of that animal thing………….. Humanity alone confirms the truth and accuracy of scripture. It is not my fault you have latched onto the dopey age of StainlessSteel evolution.
Read the post again will you, see the whole picture.
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Did you ever ask yourself doug WHY man is completely different from another,
Yes … it is called evolution.
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Now this is hilarious!!!
Yet in 9 months a mother gives birth to a baby looking nothing like her. Tks for providing some comic relief, no evolution necessary.
Would you like to try Sports for 300?
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No, let’s rather do paleontology.
Your starter for Ten, Bamber Gasgoine. How about any evidence of dinosaurs and humans co-existing?
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No, let’s address your point. You brought it up.
Your animal friends apparently did not get the evolutionary message to ‘evolve,’ your words, whereby they can be distinguished one from another.
Humanity alone bears the stamp as the pinnacle of God’s creation. We screwed it up to be sure, but still…..
Beavers may be dam good builders………but they lack the necessary skills to erect the Aswan damn……..
No evo needed. But no tkx on the dino thing, I have waaaaay different thoughts on the matter, none suitable for an afternoon of blogging.
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Well, if you aren’t even prepared to defend your bible -which you claim is the word of an invisible deity -then there seems little point explaining the basics of evolution, now is there?
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As a tactician, an army general would be useless to engage in a battle of irrelevance.
I’m pretty sure I have never even mentioned the word dinosaur in all my years of blogging. I’ll keep it that way. I am a chess player after all.
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I understand you would not want to sacrifice too many pawns.
After all, too much exposure of the primary target will see you being forced to lay down your king.
And of course, you would prefer to dance until a Fool’s Mate rather than risk that.
But the truth exposes all your weaknesses, John, does it not?
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But the shortsighted evolutionist/atheist must be unaware that many a lowly pawn has brought down the iron lady, and brought the false king to his knees in humiliation and surrender.
God’s word crushes all nonsense, and has consistently told the truth, and as I assert here, and as scatterwisdom pointed out, the whole world has jumped onto that ship of fools.
Why you support a sinking ship is beyond me. Why you can’t thank God for the ability to read, and give thanks for posts like this whereby you get one more opportunity after another to see the utter lights and perfections of scripture is beyond me.
Personally, I find the whole topic of small or big lizards boring.
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Personally, I find the whole topic of small or big lizards boring.
Of course you do – the dinosaurs chew rather large holes in the ridiculous tale of Noah’s ark for one thing.
Not to mention that Creationists are always forced to tell lies when it comes to explaining dinosaurs.
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Do you notice how I am patient with your nonsense? And how I refuse your bait which you plug on many blogs?
As to lies? Ha! Evolutionists and atheists wrote this book: there in no God.
Ship of fools I tell ya.
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Patient?
No, you purposely refuse to make answer and thus avoid facing the truth by pretending you are humouring me, when in fact, you simply have no answer to the lies your worldview is founded upon.
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Doug, look
I write a post regarding the truthfulness of scripture, its past, present, and the future history of man. Its not a smorgasbord like you are used to at your place where you enjoy every kind of unclean and foul bird.
If you want to talk dinosaur, find someone who speaks dinoese, or wait until such time as I do a post myself.
Fair?
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If you had not made the silly comment about mutiny regards evolution I would have shook my head and gone back to reading. But sometimes there are things so utterly stupid they cry out to be answered.
Now you have been called out you hand wave and obfuscate when all you had to do was be honest, and make an honest answer.
But this is where your problems begin, as you cannot make an honest answer regarding dinosaurs. Therefore, you simply refuse to engage the topic and thus avoid telling even more lies.
It is one of the bigger stumbling blocks Creationists cannot get over.
Feigning ignorance is as bad as lying, John.
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There is always the possibility doug that I am a tad smarter than you, NOT IN CAMERA WORK, but in what is worthy of debate, endless speculation, or just plain foolishness. What you call ignorance may be just that uncomfortable word in your mind: wisdom, which comes from God, and not Darwin.
I rest my case. My blog post. I set the boundaries, and others reading along will agree that your rubber band has outstretched its limits.
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I am sure you are smarter than me in certain things.
However, there is nothing smart about lying simply to protect the indefensible, or your own ignorance.
Yes, you do set the boundaries on your blog.
However, while your Creationist a priori. argument might look good in the eyes of some who visit, there may be a few believers who might wonder at your constant evasion of the topic and consider you just may be being duplicitous.
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Well, we will just leave it there. Perhaps others will chime in to provide some other color commentary. 😉
But tkx for the visit.
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I sincerely hope they do, John.
Maybe some of your Christian visitors aren’t quite so cowardly as their blog host and are prepared to defend the bible with genuine evidence, rather that flowery rhetoric and hyperbole.
The question stands: Where is the evidence for dinosaurs and humans co-existing?
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No, your question doesn’t stand. The better question is why you do not give God the sheer courtesy of existing. And stop asking for proof. You have eyes don’t you?
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The question is one of many fundamentals that your worldview is built upon.
That you refuse to even engage on the topic demonstrates just how disingenuous you are.
For the record; I am quite willing to concede a creator deity. In this regard, ”I don’t know” is perfectly acceptable. and it does not really impact on me at all.
However, to accept the god you have in mind requires you to provide evidence, and so far you have never done so.
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I’m pretty sure any ally of mine will appreciate my discourse, but hey, you never know.
(You must have missed the place where I said I have my own thoughts on the matter, but are rather sauring…..)
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You said:
‘If an argument does not stand up to scrutiny then it is worthless.’
And yet you refuse the greatest scrutiny of all: God’s word, which indicts our conscience, probes our hearts, and refreshes our minds, not to mention the entire consistency of one message from Genesis to Revelation, that God is good, and that He is for us.
And oh, then there is the history, the documented and accurate chronicles including dates and places,
The scrutiny you demand is the scrutiny you refuse. Period. My postings, as well as the excellent commentary by visitors is enough proof that I and we tell the truth, because the truth is much greater and larger than ourselves.
And the scorn levelled at us for believing the scriptures is expected and only strengthens faith.
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Your god’s word does not stand up to scrutiny.
And it never has
The question of dinosaurs and humans co- existing is a perfect case in point, and one you simply refuse to engage.
If your argument is so strong then this question should be a knock down for you without even breaking a sweat.
And yet, you hand-wave and obfuscate every single time.
If you cannot defend such a basic Tenet of Creationism then you will never convince any skeptic that your worldview holds any merit whatsoever, and you will do as you always have done – resort to telling lies.
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You are beating that poor pony. What you call a ‘basic tenet of creationism’ is a mere smokescreen. I have already proved to you that your hero Collins and the HGP is incorrect as to his ‘findings,’ and that one day he will admit his error, then what will you do? Christians are not cookie cutters and all are not at the same mile markers in life or understanding. But perhaps you can point me to the word dinosaur in the bible. If not, you understand why this is pointless.
For the love of God, how many people disagree as to the properties of water, and even more are clueless as to what lies beneath the oceans of the great deep, wherein dwells fountains. But on the surface, rest assured that all passengers who are atheists
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|I have already proved to you that your hero Collins and the HGP is incorrect as to his ‘findings,’
Again, you are a liar.
Agreed, there is no word ”dinosaur” as the word was not coined until 1842. Perhaps you may have heard of Richard Owen?
So, please, stop trying to be smart – you do a very poor job of it.
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Just so you know doug, because you do not believe something does not mean I am lying.
For your information though, tks for the compliment, as Paul was met with daily accusations such as ‘madman,’ and the illustrious Peter, as ‘unlearned and ignorant.’
So I take your charges as cloaked accolades.
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Yeah CS, I would like to know more about dino families and humans living together and how Noah saved them on his big boat, and If he saved these dinosaurs, how come there are none today?
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Tks steve, but I have said enough to ark- and your query(?) is proof that after a thousand more comments, you will still not believe Noah, that there was an ark, that there was a flood, that they were, were not on the ark,
Get the point? Irrelevant. I tend to believe things credible and provable, that’s why I am a Biblicist.
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“Biblicist: a person who interprets the Bible literally.” (Google)
Fancy that, how far do you go with that? I guess for a start you will not have given away all your possessions and riches considering you have a computer to spread what is your obsession on an internet connection.
There are many things written in the Bible that I do hope you do not follow, but I expect your evolved sense of decency and morals will have some effect on your decision making and it should at least keep you out of jail.
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I suggest you read steve the book of Ephesians, Philippians, 1 Corinthians 13, so sure, there is plenty of instruction how believers are to behave without being lectured by unbelievers.
I do suggest however you get a grip on what meaneth GRACE.
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Yes CS grace has been explained to me and it appears simply as an excuse to accidently continue your sinful life style or commit a crime and then be able to beg forgiveness. I say this because I cannot understand why a starving Hindu child should die and go to hell for eternity because they are not Christian when an American convict on death row can repent his sins to God and become a Christian to be saved and sit next to the Lord after his execution?
For Biblicists such as yourself I actually took the meaning literally. What I think is that it is impossible considering children and women would suffer the most from discrimination, beatings, rape and death, therefore it is morally corrupt would you not say?
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Try to stay focused steve.
Sideshows do not impress me. The truthfulness and complete consistency of scripture from Genesis 1.1 to the Revelation is kind of obvious.
Only a passenger on the ship of fools would disagree. Sorry, but we tell the truth around here.
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“The truthfulness and complete consistency of scripture from Genesis 1.1 to the Revelation is kind of obvious.”
And as a Biblicist do you agree and feel you could believe and uphold every single word that is written without question? Nobody could CS not even a super cat like yourself. It has been tried and has always failed in tragedy.
“Sorry, but we tell the truth around here.” Really?
If you removed your blinkered views of what is really going on and the plugs from your ears most of the world you would find does not agree with you, even though Christianity is the only religion that teaches man can do nothing to earn or pay his way into heaven, there are other Christians who have different interpretations of the Bible than you do, and the many other religions have some form of good deeds within their doctrines.
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Steve.
I’m trying real hard to be patient.
The bible is God’s word. The Creator. Smart people do not disagree. The human brain and conscience knows this. On the bedside stand at the hotel for weary travelers, there is not a comic book left by the owner.
Scripture does not depend on me to make it true. It is entirely true if nobody believes it. You talk in tongues and circles more than charasmatics.
There is no marksman on earth who could hit the exact center of the red bull at 50 yds every time, yet still be a veteran archer. God’s word is that center; of course all men fail, but we understand the nature of a loving God and press on without fearing punishment as you assert. As to different interpretations, so what? It’s called growing, and forbearing differences. I am well aware of what battles are worthy of engagement. Grape juice vs. wine is not one of them.
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Ok I understand that every Christian cannot be perfect but many likely do try to be. This can be a good thing for some people I grant you that, however when you have a conflict in terms for emotionally understanding the Bible like these three very nice quotes:
Proverbs 8:17 “I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.”
Mark 12:31 “The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
1 Corinthians 13:13 “So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”
And then you get these conflicting quotes.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
Leviticus 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them.”
This is a contrast that is beyond explanation, it is a complete mess when on one hand you must love your neighbour as yourself as there is no greater command, and love is the greatest of all. Those bold declarations mean to me literally everyone regardless of their sexual situation. But then when everyone thought they could at least bask in the love of God he throws out the bathwater.
God says not just homosexuals but a whole raft of people will not get to heaven such as a thief or drunkard and you only have to ask forgiveness and you are good to go. Is this the same law for homosexuals? A drunkard may try hard to not get drunk but eventually fails but just needs to repent and ask for forgiveness, and a homosexual will try hard to avoid his partner, but he also fails, repents and asks for forgiveness, so what is the difference? Why just persecute the homosexual to the ends of the Earth but not the drunkards, the adulterers or the thieves?
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Let’s make this easy.
You try to understand calculus when you can’t count to three. Are you beginning to see your spiritual understanding?
The fear of the Lotd is the beginning of wisdom. The BEGINNING. If you cannot give God at least the courtesy of existing in His own creation……you may as well try to teach an ape how to tie his shoes.
Do you not see your own dilemma you have created? Rest assured Gods word is not difficult to understand.
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Steve, by your own admission you have never read the Bible completely yet you think you are qualified to teach believers what it means? Use your God-given brain, Steve, and think for yourself. The only thing you EVER put in comments is thoughts others have given you. You WON”T use your own brain, however, because you know darn well where that would take you. There is only one place you can go when you actually think for yourself.
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Reading the bible, carefully and thoroughly is probably the single biggest reason why Christians deconvert.
You obviously do not read it carefully, as you demonstrate time and again you lack of understanding in what is written.
You claim a literal interpretation is correct, when even someone such as Tertullian thought such an idea was daft.
You believe the Flood was a literal occurrence. And even though you accept this tale (as you do others) based solely on faith, you have not the intellectual integrity to bother to verify any of the details, which would demonstrate such a tale is nothing but nonsense.
And this is why you don’t read the bible carefully or honestly as ”There is only one place you can go when you actually think for yourself.”
and that would be you would deconvert.
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Thank you ark.
You have inadvertently admitted that all passengers on the ship of fools are decons. That is funny actually. Sad but still hilarious.
God’s word has secured the finest of places in the hearts of men. These men include Physicians, nurses, surgeons, (health) Lawyers, (law) Surveyors (geography) Farmers, Botanists, (agriculture) Captains, Fishermen, (hydrologists) Engineers, (draftsmen, builders, carpenters) etc etc
You see, every field and discipline of studious and fair minded people admit and agree as to the Creator and owner of life as demonstrated and proven in the reliability of scripture.
Still changing hearts, Still changing stubborn minds. Still satiating every desire of man, and demolishing the little god false science in the process.
(btw, a man may deconvert from a false position, but no sane mind could fault God or scripture. This is a fact. The book of Jude agrees)
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Yes, your flowery rhetoric is to be expected.
However, if memory serves, the water covered the mountains to a depth/height of 15 cubits or thereabouts and this height is more or less the height the average commercial airliner flies.
You don’t need a course in basic aeronautics to understand the ramifications of this surely?
They would have frozen to death for one thing.
So stop being an apologetic half wit and at least recognise the story is a fiction.
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See, you can actually be more civil if you try. Still wrong but civil.
Perhaps science has eluded you doug as to the amount of WATER in the world, both below, and above.
Maybe you need to be caught in a torrential downpour and see first hand what a mere few inches of rain can do in minutes……..the massive flooding…..as opposed to 40 days AND forty days of nonstop water.
The fountains below per Genesis; as proven a few years ago as existed by scientists. Hmmmm, how could stone age ignorant men possibly know of the fountains of the great deep long before a printing press, and ages before Jack Cousteau wore his first diaper…………..
…………unless, God’s word is true. Of course its true. Some day you just may join the ranks of the learned since God owns all intelligence, it’s a good thing to agree with Him; such is true wisdom.
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The bible states the water rose above the mountains to a height of 15 cubits.
The ark’s occupants would likely have frozen to death.
That really is all one needs to demonstrate how ridiculous the tale is.
Let’s be honest about this fact first shall we before we get on to the geology of rock bound water?
If you cannot answer this scientific fact with any degree of integrity then what is one to think about your personal honesty?
And isn’t about time you rebuked Wally for his daft belief that humans and dinosaurs co-existed?
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Honesty Doug? Uh hello? There is no other source book available on earth such as God’s word.
As to Wally, if you want to have that discussion pers Dino’s, I suggest you talk to someone who has seen them. I have no time for endless speculation as I’ve said before.
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Fair enough – ”God’s word”
Now, at 15 cubits above the top of the mountains the ambient temperature would be around minus 40 degrees (Celsius/Fahrenheit)
Most if not all of the animals in the ark would likely have frozen to death – certainly the mammals from the temperate zones and the tropics..
Now please address this issue with some degree of honesty. We wouldn’t want to be calling you disingenuous or worse a liar once more now would we?
Re: The Wally. So are you saying because no one has seen a (live) dinosaur then you are quite happy to believe they co-existed with humans?
And thus you must therefore, reject the fossil evidence.
Again, it would be preferable if you also addressed this issue with honesty and integrity rather than hand waving it as a way of avoiding any need to rebuke Wally for his ignorant, unscientific, and patently false belief.
Thanks.
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Ah yes, you are talking about the world that then was. With men living to the ripe age of 900+ and water pouring from above and below.
So it seems to be quite easy to believe that the Maker of water could perfectly maintain His climate and temperature to ensure the family of Mr Noah and friends survived per His promise.
As to your other, I actually have no idea what W thinks, but I’ll tell u this: I had a painted table on display at a show, and some hotshot engineer called me a liar- said it wasn’t painted.
The highest of compliments to be sure, so yeah, men’s opinions are overrated- hope u see the connection w- records.
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Ah … so he also included all the seeds for all the plants that were contained in all the world too.
Okay.
So no evidence, a rejection of science and a final hand wave.
Do you accept fossil evidence for dinosaurs?
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The master gardener and landscaper is well aware how to maintain a terrarium.
I’m asking u politely to cease re the dino thing- a non issue and if I were you, I’d focus on the 10,000 answers already given.
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The ”dino” thing is crucial as the fossil record bears witness to the incredible age of the earth and also to these marvelous creatures that once held dominion over the planet, and also gives us excellent evidence for evolution.
Your continual desire to hand wave them away tells me you are afraid to face the consequences of what an open discussion about the dinosaurs will inevitably reveal.
This fear is also the reason you refuse to rebuke Wally for his Young Earth Creationist beliefs.
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For the love of God ark- u don’t believe God’s word that has a thousand per cent accuracy.
You specialize in the dubious, and ignore the obvious.
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I grant you your right to beleive this, but you must then you must face the question of the dinosaurs with equal conviction and at least make an answer regarding whether humans and dinosaurs co-existed.
The evidence lies in the fossils for all to see.
It cannot be swept under the carpet.
For goodness sake, man, stop hand waving and have the decency to face this issue with the degree of honesty and integrity you continually demand of me.
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Ark, it makes me no less credible as to the saurs- I wasn’t there. Do you believe Goliath of Gath lived at over 9 ft tall, having even more evidence?
Do u not see why ur query is pointless? Records, no records, all subject to the interpretation of they holding the cards.
I even told u the HGP was mistaken, yet you hang your hat on that because you agree, not because it’s correct.
Your greater concern should be Adam and his posterity.
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There is no evidence for Goliath.
We have the evidence for dinosaurs – the FOSSILS.
There is no need for interpretation.
The fossils prove the existence of the dinosaurs.
Now, stop avoiding the issue and deal with it.
Address the issue of dinosaurs co existing with humans.:
Do you accept that they lived at the same time yes or no?
And provide evidence with your answer.
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Ok ark- no more talk of Dino’s- u will not believe the credibility of the 9 ft goon having all the proof- yet u persist in the small talk of big lizards having zero proof.
Ship of fools…
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I would like you to clarify this comment, please John.
Are you saying there is no proof of dinosaurs?
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I’m saying it is irrelevant. A 6 inch or hundred ft Liz- means nothing to me.
We may as well be talking about the obscure unicorn, behemoth, or leviathan.
I know what is worthy of long term dialog, and dino***** are waaay at the bottom, especially in this post, where I proved all else.
Namely, if the record of historical fact does not move you, it’s no wonder you would expect to cause a sideshow.
I don’t like reindeer games- now respect my request already.
Maybe write your own post?
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The subject is extremely important as it undermines much of what Young Earth Creationism postulates as fact.
So, The question I asked you to clarify is: are you saying there is no proof of the dinosaurs.
If you refuse to answer I can only assume you are being disingenuous or, and I sincerely hope this is not the case …. telling lies.
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Ark- read my comments on this thread. Read the post. I will not follow your trail of irrelevance to fuel your circus. Most fair minded people following along know I have made the case.
As to the age of the earth, I have said on Numerous occasions I don’t know.
Tkx for abiding by the blog host’s desire. No interest in Din****** here.
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You haven’t stated ”your case”.
What you have done though, is obfuscate avoid hand wave and basically do everything you can to avoid addressing the question.
While you certainly haven’t lied you have in no way been honest.
But then, this is where you excel is it not?
Maybe your ”crew” will cheer along from the side lines, maybe you will think yourself clever?
Paul suggested it was okay to lie and so did Eusebius, so I guess you consider you are in exulted company?
However you wish to look at it, you are dishonest.
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Do tell where Paul authorized lying. This ought to be hilarious for he said: Let every man speak truth with his neighbor, and let every man put away lying…….
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Again, you avoid the question of dinosaurs demonstrating once more that you are dishonest.
Well done.
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Whoa cowboy- you said on THIS thread that Paul ok’d lying, in a post in which I stressed the truth.
The truth of scripture is the issue- not you antics of unprovable theories.
So WHERE did Paul approve lying? A worldwide audience awaits. You made the charge, so accept the consequences
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If you are unaware of the verse then perhaps you don’t know the bible as well as you think?
But that is irrelevant to the dinosaurs other than to suggest you keep ”good company” (sic) with your obfuscation and dishonesty. So address the dinosaur issue first and then maybe we can tackle the subject of Paul, okay?
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Why have you refused to release comments currently held in moderation?
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My generosity has been overflowing with your commentary ark. I have said enough, and have also told you THIS thread is no venue for that.
That topic is not germane to the ‘ship.’ I asked you to stop in the persistence. You refused.
Your few sitting on the rocks is proof that u do not listen, but you have already repeated your points over and over.
Wait til I do an isolated post on that or do one yourself. Tks.
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I appreciate your continual desire not to reference dinosaurs, but as Noah’s Ark is raised in the post and your comment:
” …..they will continue to mock Noah, …. then your position on the dinosaurs is extremely important.
Aside from the fact geology has demonstrated the Biblical flood account is simply myth, the dinosaurs are neither included in the species taken aboard the ark nor are they even alluded to.
And let’s be honest, if humans were aware of their presence a 30ft Tyrannosaurs is hardly something that would go unnoticed, as I am sure you would agree.
And of course, we have thousands upon thousands of fossils to prove their existence.
So they are indeed germane to the post, which is why I am asking for your position on them and their claimed co-existence with humans by the likes of Wally and other YECs.
I will indeed relish a dedicated post on this topic.
However, in the meantime:
a) Are you denying their existence?
b) Do you consider they inhabited the earth alongside human beings?
Thanks
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“The fountains below per Genesis; as proven a few years ago as existed by scientists. Hmmmm, how could stone age ignorant men possibly know of the fountains of the great deep long before a printing press, and ages before Jack Cousteau wore his first diaper”
Maybe because they used to dig down into the ground to find water and build wells. Logical is it not?
I seriously doubt that kangaroos, koala bears, kiwis, penguins and butterflies could have made it to the middle east to get on the ark, never mind find their own countries when they got off the ark, they could not read a compass and many animals such as a tortoise would have taken many thousands of years to get there even if it could swim an ocean.
Well I suppose if God was the creator of the flood and was supposed to have steered this boat from heaven why did he not do a miracle such as simply kill the people he had a beef with, after all he had done that without any problems to entire cities. He could have just created a disease that would have killed humans only because why did the remaining animals have to die as well?
He could also have divinely fed the animals on the ark for a year, shrunk them down for a year into the size of mice. However as supernatural miracles are invoked to explain various things it can be used to explain everything that is impossible.
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Stop embarrassing yourself Steve. The point is scripture is faithful in telling that which no man could have known.
What SUBMARINE existed six thousand years ago wherein the fountains under the deepest oceans run their course?
Scripture is good, and shuts the mouths on all passengers aboard the ship of fools.
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Submarines were not required to believe water came from under the ground. Man knew this before your version of the Earth was created.
“Wells were first constructed at least eight thousand years ago and historically vary in construction from a simple scoop in the sediment of a dry watercourse to the qanats of Iran, and the stepwells and sakiehs of India. Placing a lining in the well shaft helps create stability, and linings of wood or wickerwork date back at least as far as the Iron Age.” (Wikipedia)
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Fountains of the great deep Steve. Under the oceans. Ever heard of Mt Everest? Yeah, that deep- things impossible to know.
Get your head out of the fog of arrogance and give the Creator the benefit of actually knowing more than you. Sheesh.
The instability of the atheist mind is stunning. Btw, I do not care what wiki says in this regard. God’s word is always correct, in every topic therein.
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What’s a matter Ark? Your little puppet on a string finally look so stupid you had to intervene?
Let Steve defend his own stupidity.
He admits to having never read it yet corrects us on it
That is just stupid.
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Steve is defends his position perfectly well.
There are plenty of places on the internet where one can read as much or as little as one wishes.
I read it all because I felt like it. You probably haven’t and you certainly haven’t read it. And even if it turns out you have read it all, cover to cover, you certainly haven’t read it honestly or even understood it either.
Anyway,one doesn’t have to have read the entire bible to refute most of the major silly things you believe.
I was not defending Steve at all, merely demonstrating just how blatantly ignorant you are about the ”book” you revere so much.
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So your basic position is that anybody who fails to reach the same conclusion as you either has not read or has not understood.
Got it.
Meanwhile Steve still looks stupid to counsel people on a book he has not read by his own admission.
Your little indoctrinated puppet has gone rogue lol. Better catch him before he provides yet more proof that atheism is void and nonsensical
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Correct.
And we must accept that indoctrination plays a role as well.
Not in the least. As far as I have read, Steve refutes every biblical/christian claim that you ( and others) insist are legit.
You, fr example, are a biblical innerantist and Young Earth Creationist thus you are even more ignorant and have even less grounds to criticize Steve for anything concerning the text.
For goodness sake, even folk such as Tertullian and Origen recognized that the bible was not meant to be taken literally.
All you are able to do is go off on a bender rant and stamp your foot.
Why don’t you offer evidence for your belief that EDIT (APPARENTLY YOU ARE NOT LISTENING)………….. co existed?
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Lol. Actually you seem to be the agitated one.
And I rest my case. Steve looks like an ignorant blowhard. Once he actually reads the text he blabber about he can speak about it. And your blind support his level of ignorance raises you to it.
Comment stands
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No, Wally. As a YEC you are in no position whatsoever to judge or criticize Steve, simply because of your YEC standpoint which epitomizes your gross ignorance concerning the text itself.
That you refuse to engage on the dinosaur issue is evidence enough of your fear to face reality.
And that stands.
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I have every right to tell Steve and you what I think. You certainly wish I didn’t but at this point i do. But even if you and your pack of haters take that right, God’s Word won’t be muted by the likes of you and crew.
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Yes, of course you have every right. But the problem is that you cannot support any claim you make with evidence. And that is the crucial point.
Neither of us ”hates” gods, not yours’ or anyone else’s and that you now have to resort to this pathetic nonsense demonstrates once more that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about or any evidence to support your beliefs.
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Lol. Steve can’t support any claim about the Bible that he makes since he BY HIS OWN ADMISSION has never read it.
He relies in people like you to soon feed him his thoughts. And since you are a Biblical illiterate he looks like a dunce. You should really use this time to retrain your puppet as he is embarrassing you and by your blind defense if him you continue to prove the utter stupidity, voidness and incoherence of atheism.
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“What I think is that it is impossible considering children and women would suffer the most from discrimination, beatings, rape and death, therefore it is morally corrupt would you not say?”
Ironically those who suffer the most under Christian values are actually men. Harsh, but true. Statistics bear this out, men are some 20 times more likely to be a victim of homicide, a casualty of war, a victim of suicide, a victim of crime, and incarcerated. In fact, the very reason why we care so much more about those women and kids who do get hurt is actually evidence of our Christian values.
We do too, value women and kids more, and we shouldn’t be ashamed of it, because the very fact that that Hindu girl dying troubles us is evidence of our faith and the One who also cared and gave His own life to redeem us.
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“Ironically those who suffer the most under Christian values are actually men.”
I do not doubt your claim IB,
“In fact, the very reason why we care so much more about those women and kids who do get hurt is actually evidence of our Christian values.”
This is very doubtful evidence considering the men have protected their families and fought wars since they walked the Earth well before Christianity. Male lions also protect their pride without Biblical influence, it is in mans DNA evolved from our earliest ancestors.
“because the very fact that that Hindu girl dying troubles us is evidence of our faith and the One who also cared and gave His own life to redeem us.”
I seriously cannot see how that can be evidence of anything but a sad loss of life. A Hindu girl dying is a tragedy for all of us, so how can it be evidence of your faith? It would be if God had come to Earth and given her a fish and some bread, but we know that is a myth, therefore her God and your God between them could do nothing for her, not a chance of life but a proposed Christian hell for eternity or a Hindu rebirth but regardless along with thousands of others she starved to death, and likely to have been in much pain.
It is ridiculously easy for Christians to say that unfortunately this girl goes to hell because she did not seek our God, and this is God’s plan, however God is always good to a well fed obese middle aged American employee simply because he prayed to God so that his arthritis was healed, and another man claimed from his heart felt prayers to God, he had saved his house from a falling branch during the storm, and on it goes.
How more illogical and corrupt can all religious ideologies ever be.
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“A Hindu girl dying is a tragedy for all of us, so how can it be evidence of your faith?”
Well, what makes it a tragedy? I think it’s a tragedy because a child made in the image of God did not have the chance to live a long life full of purpose and meaning. But if you are an atheist, then how can it be a tragedy when it means nothing more than a random bit of biological cells has now ceased to exist?
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“Well, what makes it a tragedy? I think it’s a tragedy because a child made in the image of God did not have the chance to live a long life full of purpose and meaning. But if you are an atheist, then how can it be a tragedy when it means nothing more than a random bit of biological cells has now ceased to exist?”
I do not know what makes you believe that atheists would consider life is a random bit of biological cells? Truth is, atheists cherish every minute they are alive because they do not hold onto the falsity of another life after death.
The purpose and meaning of life for people in the lucky countries is what you as an individual want to make of it and with the best health systems, an income, government assistance and living in relevant safety we have many opportunities and we know we will never die due to an empty stomach.
The tragedy of this occurrence is the belief that God designed it so that she would die from hunger and in pain. If this girl had been lucky enough to be born in Australia she would have had a full life without any doubt. Therefore, your Christian reasoning for Gods plan is at best a ridiculous concept but a convenient excuse to wave away any of the horrendous events that happen to human life or our planet, regardless if it is a Hindu girl dying or uncle Fred dying from an ingrown toenail.
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“The tragedy of this occurrence is the belief that God designed it so that she would die from hunger and in pain.”
Well, I think the part that is irrational about that, if you don’t believe in God, then you have to admit that the people who “designed a system that would allow a girl to die hungry and in pain,” is actually US people.
So we people tend to blame a God we refuse to believe in for a tragedy we ourselves created through our own neglect, and then we congratulate ourselves for rejecting God and the girl dies anyway.
That’s just cray cray.
Far better to believe in God, to honor that child as being made in His image, and to join with your brothers and sisters who are actually working very hard to feed the hungry and heal the sick.
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3rd paragraph is sooooo good.
It’s a gift for you Steve; open carefully.
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That is such a simple explanation IB, what about the fact that your God who knows everything before it happens and even knows how many hairs are on your head etc, etc?
So, you are saying God had no foresight or absolutely no control over any humans and considering humans are responsible for starving people to death does this become the same old rhetoric of “Gods plan” or alternatively does he not care or even exist?
Have you IB, as an in depth thinker that I know you to be, ever given this serious thought in consideration as to how the world actually works, especially within the realms of death and destruction, because I see no spiritual controlling influence of any description only when the effects of man are involved of course?
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I believe God does have foresight and the power to intervene in human lives when He sees fit. A bit like a child who does not always understand their parents, it is hard for us to see the whole picture and to understand things from God’s perspective.
In order to get more wisdom about why God might intervene in some ways, but not always in the ways we believe He should, we have to humble ourselves and trust in His wisdom. The world is a bit like a jenga puzzle or an elaborate grid. We cannot see all the cause and effect going on and we do not perceive things with eternal eyes, we do not realize that our lives are just a moment in time and not the whole story.
There’s a great philosophical question, you’ve probably already heard, but if you encountered the baby Hitler, would you kill him, knowing what you know about his future? Would you execute an innocent child to prevent the holocaust? How would that alter the course of mankind? Would you be guilty of murder? What if you chose not to kill him,knowing full well he goes onto to murder millions? Are you now complicit in the holocaust? Did your lack of action aid and abet a genocide? Or, if you had taken out Hitler, did you just enable a dozen much worse tyrants rise to power to exploit a now naive population that doesn’t even know what a “Hitler” is?
We can go down that rabbit hole for miles exploring many ethical and moral considerations, but the point of the exercise is to help us understand that we are not God, that the wisdom required to sort out these kinds of moral issues simply exceeds our ethical capabilities.
We haven’t got the right to judge God or to criticize Him, because a bit like small children all we can see is our own immediate needs and we just want the hunger to stop and the illness to go away.
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“I believe God does have foresight and the power to intervene in human lives when He sees fit. A bit like a child who does not always understand their parents, it is hard for us to see the whole picture and to understand things from God’s perspective.”
Are we all not supposed to be God’s children? Is it not God who supposedly bought morals into the world? Is it not God who said he loves everyone, is that supposed to be taken as gospel or maybe there is some doubt in that?
How can Christians believe God will heal some 60 year old of lung cancer who is in a modern hospital with modern drugs as a miracle just because you prayed, yet so much else in the world is deserving of a miracle but is totally ignored. It is without any foundation to claim that God may intervene when he sees fit or hard for us to see or understand the whole picture from God’s perspective.
Such as If I watched from the river bank 2 people drowning would I save the old man or the child? If I saved the child from drowning and the old man was saved by hanging on to a floating log passing his way this is what you would claim as Gods intervention when it is clearly seen that the old man was simply very lucky, however while this drama unfolds it is unfortunate that the 2 year old child in the family home just around the corner who at the time is being beaten to death by her father did not qualify this time.
“we have to humble ourselves and trust in His wisdom. The world is a bit like a jenga puzzle or an elaborate grid. We cannot see all the cause and effect going on and we do not perceive things with eternal eyes, we do not realize that our lives are just a moment in time and not the whole story.”
Not one word of fact or evidence regarding this statement exists. You can read your Bible and claim anything you like until you are blue in the face, but it does not change reality.
“There’s a great philosophical question, you’ve probably already heard, but if you encountered the baby Hitler, would you kill him, knowing what you know about his future? Would you execute an innocent child to prevent the holocaust? How would that alter the course of mankind? Would you be guilty of murder? What if you chose not to kill him, knowing full well he goes onto to murder millions? Are you now complicit in the holocaust? Did your lack of action aid and abet a genocide?”
In such a high tech time traveling decade it is likely young Hitler could have been administered a mind altering drug by the time traveller that would make young Adolf into a man of peace. The question should really be if God knew what this child was going to be born and what atrocities he was to do to his chosen people as an adult why did he not have him die at birth or killed as a soldier in the first world war?
“but the point of the exercise is to help us understand that we are not God, the wisdom required to sort out these kinds of moral issues simply exceeds our ethical capabilities.”
Obviously that applies to your God as well, he has allowed many hundreds of idiots to kill millions, where is this wisdom?
“We haven’t got the right to judge God or to criticize Him, because a bit like small children all we can see is our own immediate needs and we just want the hunger to stop and the illness to go away.”
That is the point, I will always judge your God and every other God on Earth because they are the excuses religions use for everything that happens. I also do not believe I am so childish that I do not understand what and why things happen around me right now in the land of reality, and as I have always said all gods are located firmly between the ears of a human.
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I just have to say Steve, every word you say, every single time, can be plugged and played by any atheist.
Yet you fail to see how believers comments and posts tear to shreds the world views of atheists every single time. Why?
Because light exposes darkness. I’m sorry but you are truly clueless as to scripture and the ONLY living God.
You may actually want to try reading God!s word , because your remarks reveal zero comprehension. Not an insult, just the facts.
I’ll keave you alone in the hands of the good lady but hope -19 is the year you wake up.
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Your life is slow cruising up high at Gods level on a delicate and magical soft white fluffy heavenly pillow type of cloud CS, you have no down to Earth answers to atheists realistic views of life apart from total condemnation and hand waving, however that does not matter to you at all as everything you have undying faith in and what you say is the absolute truth for the whole world, no matter what the contrary evidence may be and where it comes from, right?
By the way I am awake, but it really is my bed time, plus the few beers I had are not helping me to keep me awake.
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“That is the point, I will always judge your God and every other God on Earth because they are the excuses religions use for everything that happens.”
That is actually the atheist mindset, not the Christian one. Those of us in faith already know why the world is as it is, and we don’t blame God. We know we ourselves are responsible and without excuse for having let it happen.
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See! Coward and a liar! Well done!
EDIT: CTOM IS CORRECT. I DO NOT HAVE THE PATIENCE OF JOB, AND PER MY PREVIOUS COMMENT, I SAID IF YOU MENTIONED ‘MENTAL ILLNESS ONE MORE TIME………..’ YOUR COMMENTS WOULD GO BY THE WAYSIDE.’ I have therefore kept my promise, yet you persist, albeit the accusation of ‘liar’ is just as bad.. Maybe some time in the ‘time out corner’ will do you some good, but do take this as an invitation to wait for another post.
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Can I please refer you once more to the man born blind who saw the color blue for the first time; instead of the ‘learned ones’ being genuinely happy for him, they accused him of lying.
I have told you the truth every time. Apparently you do not like blue.
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Sorry I’m a little late to the party CS, it seems some of your guests tried to burn the house down. The USS DEVO reminds me a bit of the Titanic, that giant symbol of man’s hubris and pride that went down as the band played on til the end.
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Sorry trish- you were in the basement, at least safe from all the rising smoke!
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😉
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@ IB
So your god gives us Free Will, which, bearing in mind he already knows what we will do before we even do it, which suggests free will probably isn’t as ”free” as we might think. To top it all, he then condemns us for screwing up and sends us to hell for not believing in him when all along he knew what the outcome was.
So, how is your god just? Please explain.
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@IB “That is actually the atheist mindset, not the Christian one. Those of us in faith already know why the world is as it is, and we don’t blame God. We know we ourselves are responsible and without excuse for having let it happen.”
Please enlighten me, you do not blame God for anything bad happening, however he is often cited as the reasoning for many of the good things that happen in life. You are blaming humanity for all the bad things that happen as you consider God is blameless, so can you also hold humanity responsible for any of the good things as well?
Where do you actually draw the line, because if God knows everything before it happens who is really in control and who is responsible here?
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Wally. As Ark pointed out, you only want to interpret the Bible as to what your ideology demands and what suits you, therefore you along with the many thousands of Christian denominations can manipulate the Biblical jargon to suit yourselves.
If you could actually read it with a clear unobstructed mind you may be able to identify the myths, the fraud and the ancient beliefs and be able to see where the real evidence exists, what is factual, realistic and how logic and reasoning work in a clear light.
(EDITORS CHOICE- Outside of scripture there is no clear light. Fact)
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Love your style of writing! Really enjoyed reading this 🙂 thanks.
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