‘Even if your god, the genocidal, meglomaniac Canaanite deity, Yahweh did exist I would not bow and scrape to such a vile entity.’ So saith he and all others who dare to pronounce such devilishness upon the one and only true God of glory. But why? Tkx for asking. Consider this:
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. –Titus
With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; And with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.
Aah yes, how doth scripture have the drop on man. It cuts to the bone and marrow of our self-absorbed interests, and lays bare just exactly how far man has fallen. Indeed, there is nothing new under the sun beginning with that rascal Cain who murdered his brother, then that big oaf who goaded David, only to be killed with a well-placed stone, and for emphasis, to lose his head.
Apparently, people do not consider the potter and the clay. What terra cotta planter would ridicule the master Potter, complaining how/why/ and for what purpose it’s made? Does not the master of the house have prerogative to do and make as he pleases?
So how does one person read the same text, and draw opposite conclusions? Seems ‘purity of heart’ is a clue yes? It’s not a matter of math, science, geography, even history or archaeology, but a simple matter of disposition.
One cannot read HONESTLY the 1st of Genesis and walk away saying God is ‘vile.’ So where does this opinion stem from? What is so vile regarding the stars above or the gold below? What is so egregious about the oceans of the world? How are the great whales representative of a God with an ego? How is lush vegetation among a pristine forest evil in the least? How are the sun and moon for earths maintenance indicative of anything but very good?
From the beginning then, HOW and WHERE does the human mind arrive at a conclusion that paints the Lord God as an evil minister? So people avoid the very narrative that gives correct context for everything that follows, and find wickedness long before the thing existed.
Scripture addresses man’s deepest needs. It doesn’t teach us how to tie our shoes, dissect a frog, fly a kite, build a plane, repair a tractor, nope, much more important things are at stake. It does give us a foundation however, upon which all of life is built and sustained, and it tells us things we could never know in a thousand universities. Scripture is that good.
I’m remined that men lived to be 900. Moses died at 120. 70-80 is common today. How things change when we understand the whole, but the same God. He is still as just by allowing a 2 yr old girl to die, as He is gracious to allow a convicted killer to live to be 93. He is perfectly just sending fire over Sodom, allowing the building to fall over Samson, as He is in forgiving a woman trapped and caught in physical indiscretions.
For thousands of years the song has been the same as sung by the pots, so we are reminded:
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Note the continual ignorance of men. Note how quickly time flies. Note the reference to pure minds. And of course, note the cosmogony: the earth standing OUT of the water and IN THE WATER. Love that. All things kept by God and confirmed in His word. He CANNOT LIE.
Vile or pure. Choose ye today.
Beautifully written ColorStorm. I cannot say nor understand why anyone would declare God to be vile, but am also quite grateful that I don’t understand, if that make sense.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Because, according to the Old Testament he committed and commanded genocide.
He also sanctioned and codified slavery.
Trish, do you really need any more reasons why your god is vile?
Well, that’s a complicated topic Ark, and one every serious Christian has grappled with at some point. I don’t pretend to know all the answers, but I do know that it’s easy to draw the wrong conclusions when analyzing cultural practices from 2,000+ years ago by today’s standards. The Classic Hebrew word ‘slave’ for example has a very different meaning in the Bible than it does today. You also have to look at the distinctions between the OT and NT treatment of slavery as God’s instructions were to a different audience for a different time.
Anyway, it’s my understanding that God redeemed his people from slavery as he still does today. It’s man, as usual with his sinful heart that created the evilness of it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Then you obviously haven’t dedicated much time to studying the Bible,
as slavery is not the same as manumission.
You will recall your god, Yahweh instructed the Israelites to anhialate all the men, boys, and women who had known a man and to save all the virgins for their soldiers.
He also wiped out every living thing save one incestuous family, a few animals and ( according to some) dinosaurs in a global flood.
That is genocide.
Nothing complicated about this. Straightforward and vile.
I never said they were the same. Now you want to move the goalpost on to discussing isolated events with no historical context or acknowledgement of the deeper meanings commonly applied? I thought you didn’t believe in the Bible or God anyway so why are you getting so upset about a fictitious character?
Nice to see things haven’t with you much Ark.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Slavery is slavery.
Why would you excuse it on the grounds of context, for goodness’ sake?
It was commanded by Yahweh and codified, and bible characters such as Moses carried out his orders.
The same was true about genocide.
How can you not condemn and be utterly horrified by the actions of the Israelites upon their entry into Canaan? Have you forgotten what Joshua was commanded to do?
It’s right there in the bible!
That the tales are nothing but geopolitical myth and historical fiction does not detract from how vile such actions are.
Christians have cited the bible and your god Yahweh as justification for so many of the heinous actions they have committed over the centuries.
It is beyond contempt that anyone would in any way glorify or justify genocide.
This is Yahweh, the god you worship.
Remember this when you want to ‘Praise the Lord’.
Apparently many people enjoyed the life as hired hands/ as opposed to living under bridges in cardboard boxes. Seems according to Paul, the account of Onessimus was an endearing relationship, but this is no doubt lost on you?
But more. Are you/ were you an Israelite? Does the Old Testament apply to you? Was the law given to you? Do I tell you how to run your garden???
And what has this to do with slavery and genocide as commanded by your Canannite god, Yahweh?
And what do ANY gripes of clay pots…….have to do with how gold was made? How oceans were made. How the sun and moon were made.
You would make a lousy magician for the sleight of hand is obvious.
For once try to address the main point of the post.
There is a main point?
As you tend to post such a diatribe I must have missed it. See if you reply Succinctly; less than two sentences if possible.
Hi Tricia/ Tkx for the affirmation of the obvious right? Geez. How can so many get it wrong, as if the Creator is on trial.
And good point too about us not having to ‘understand’ why God does this or that. He knows all things, and certainly knows best then, now, and tomorrow.
It’s like the kid who was spanked for nearly catching the house on fire as he was playing with matches. A one minute cry will serve a life of misery by preventing weeds to take over a life.
(Here comes the child abuse crowd 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
How does a brief smack compare to genocide?
Talking about ‘understanding.’ You can’t conceive why, after 120 yrs of admonition by a loving God, toward the most evil of people.
Seems you are neglecting to see the holiness of God as opposed to an evil people. HOW could God ‘repent that He had made man?’ How about seeing things from HIS perspective, not yours
Likewise a child would ask, HOW could I get the rod by my loving father?? It’s for your sake junior, and it hurts him more than you.
Once you mature you will understand. Understanding perspective is the key. ( same way ships ‘disappear’ over the horizon btw )
“Once you mature…”
Oh, the gods! You are the epitome of immaturity.
A YEC bible literalist who denies evolution, considers the earth to be flat and the moon landings are a hoax.
There is a reason science- denying indoctrinated fundamentalists are not given free rein in the education system, and if there were any doubts you confirm why such people need to be kept at arms length from our children, and preferably a lot further away!
Every time I read one of your round-the-bend comments I am even more baffled why the likes of IB and Tricia even give you the time of day.
‘Once you mature.’ Spoken directly to ‘junior.’ No way he could understand WHY he experienced the rod for almost burning the house down……. but when he MATURES, he would.
Surely you understood. Soooooo, it is in THIS context, that you seem to lack understanding re. the sovereignty of God.
More importantly, ark, up top, ‘to the pure all things are pure.’
‘To the froward man, God reveals Himself as froward.’ Sorry ark, Gods word is never wrong. It’s a good idea to take inventory using the mirror of life and truth.
More indoctrinated waffle.
You have no idea what is the word of your god,Yahweh.
The arrogance you display is worse than the most pompous Dunning Kruger individual.
Confidence is perceived as arrogance by amateurs. Dunning be damn*d.
You and a company of ten thousand atheists could not budge this rock of certainty. Why? Because God’s word and one is a majority.
‘The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God.’ This includes people who spout out their zillions of years crap, their pretended knowledge of how birds were fish, how men were apes, blah blah blah.
When we all take our turn meeting the headstone, God will still be God, and His word will be still good.
You really do love to revel….wallow in your indoctrinated nonsense.
Science denying? In a court of law you would be carted away in handcuffs for such a stupid accusation. I deal with facts.
It’s funny how your gravity is too weak to pull the apple from the tree Before it falls, yet strong enough to allow people to walk upside down like ants all over/under the world.
As to others who disagree, it’s simple. The ‘sea level’ FACT is not taught in schools……
Every comment you make illustrates the idiocy you cling to. I do out you would recognise a fact if it k
leapt from the long grass and bit you in the backside!
I will wait for Tricia to respond, if you don’t mind.
As I mentioned she and I are a chasm apart on religious grounds but I simply cannot believe she would accept or tolerate exposing her children, or any young child to the YEC, flat-earth, biblical literalism you espouse.
Ok sure thing. Just to correct you though so u can seethe in your false assertions.
NOT ONCE have I claimed to be YEC. Not once. FACT, I have said many times I DO NOT know. This is the correct scientific position, and many more illuminated minds concur. Note I said the ‘correct scientific’ position.
I never said you DID claim to be YEC. I am asserting it as fact based on the drivel you post.
It is not the correct scientific position as the age of the earth is known.
More wilful ignorance and blatant disingenuity.
Another reason I maintain you are a closet YEC.
Lol, yes, you’ll be thrown right off WordPress soon though! 😉
While I willingly acknowledge there is a chasm between you and I as far as religious belief is concerned, how on earth can you countenance the blatant science-denying, evolution-denying flat earth YEC nonsense poured out by Colorstorm?
Therefore my question is this:
In all seriousness would you truly encourage any small child to accept the rubbish he puts out regarding such things?
We’ve had our differences,Tricia, and that’s no maybe, but I would genuinely appreciate an answer on this matter.
Well, I certainly wasn’t expecting this question to show up in my notifications Ark, so kudos to your originality. It’s an easy answer though because of course I’d be thrilled if more children were exposed to ColorStorm’s thinking. In fact if I had kids, I would not hesitate to have CS teach them if he was willing. To learn the truth about who God is and why he created us individually is the key to life. CS expresses this well and we should all be grateful for this. Even if, or especially if we don’t agree on everything.
So you are happy to expose children to Young Earth Creationism, bible literalism, denial of evolution, the belief in a flat earth and the assertion that man did not walk on the moon?
You really don’t get it, do you? You should think deep and hard why you spend so much time on ColorStorm’s blog and the amount of space you allow him to take up in your head. Shoot, you should charge him rent for that.
That’s that, I’m exiting the rabbit hole now. Peace be with you.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I hardly ever visit, you should know this by now.
I just felt like winding him up a bit.
And I do get it.
It is also disconcerting that you are not honest enough to acknowledge the idiocy of some of his beliefs regarding YEC and his flat earth nonsense.
Very nice response trish/ well done- some people will never get it. You want to eat meat? Good for you. You want to abstain from meat and eat tofu pie? Good for you.
The right hand of fellowship is a very broad Avenue. Any difference tween believers only accentuates the grace of God.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Well said, Colorstorm.
“….I would not bow and scrape to such a vile entity…”
Tragically that is exactly what we do when we reject the Lord. We are now the “vile entity” we worship, believing our ways to be superior to the One who hung the stars. We have projected our own image onto the Lord, recreated Him in our own likeness, and then we rightly reject “Him” for being so dreadful. It doesn’t seem to occur to us that perhaps He isn’t vile at all? Perhaps our own understanding is flawed? Maybe we are nurturing hurts and false information? Also, Who programmed you with the innate morality that makes it possible for you to judge what is vile in the first place?
Look at Ark’s complaint, allegedly “He committed and commanded genocide…. sanctioned and codified slavery.” Well, if there is no God in your world then He did nothing of the sort. Human beings did all that. The same human beings that now feel qualified to judge the Creator? Never mind the days of the Old Testament, just the very human designed atrocities of the past 2 centuries point to us not being nearly as enlightened as we like to believe ourselves to be.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ Insanity bytes
It is important for the sake of absolute clarity for you to understand I believe in none of it. The tales in Genesis, Exodus and Joshua etc are nothing more than geopolitical foundation myth, and archeological and scientific evidence backs this to the hilt.
That said, it still does not detract from the vile actions and nature of your god, the Canaanite deity, Yahweh.
The only reason such an entity is worshipped by Christians is because most never really take the time read the bible and simply accept the garbage they are fed by their pastor or their local apologist.
If there is no God, then human beings are fully responsible for genocide and slavery and other atrocities. Why would such a creature be worthy to judge God Himself and declare Him to be vile?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Oh, I fully agree Humans are fully responsible..The problem is that your god,Yahweh has constantly been cited as justification for so many of these horrors.
I dont mind the comments here being better than the original post.
‘Who programmed you with the innate morality…..’
Luv that. Tkx for visiting and adding daylight.
Morality derives from evolution.Surely even one as indoctrinated as you can understand this?
Really now? So Cain beat his brother to death with a hammer. Yesterday old Moe beat his brother to death with a rock.
How’s that evolution thing working out for you…… and somehow God is to blame?
They have meds for that lunacy.
It always seems to come down to blaming God for the atrocities of man done in His name. Most of the time I don’t know how to satisfactorily answer these charges. Oh, I can answer them. But my answers are rarely satisfactory to those who ask them. Best to behold God Himself than to look to man and his actions.. even those purportedly done In the Name of God.
The bible is crystal clear about who commands what, and Christians have always cited the bible and the actions of Yahweh as justification for some of the most heinous acts in history.
‘Rarely satisfactory’ to they who gripe. Ha!
How about ‘never satisfactory.’
If men don’t believe God created man, gold, coal, bones, whales, etc, hoe can they possibly see straight anyway…..
You write such utter crap sometimes it’s enough to make a Saint swear
Evolution is fact.
So make your point or to quote you once again.
(For god’s sake) “shut up!”
You linked morality with evolution. I proved the absurdity.
Today still, not only murder in every city on earth, but countries annihilating each other, yet you charge God with indescretions? Not too smart.
Or are you forgetting that back in the day, ‘the thoughts and acts of men were only evil continually, so much so, that God gave 120 yr. warning….. before the waters arose, and the floods came.
Morality IS a product of evolution.
If it were not part of evolution humans would have annihilated each other from the outset.
Survival depended on cooperation.
Again, what has this to do with your god,Yahweh committing and commanding genocide or the millions slaughtered in his name?
It seems you are as befuddled in the head over this as you are over your flat earth nonsense and your moon landing conspiracy rubbish.
Next, you’ll be announcing to your followers such as Tricia and IB that Noah really did build an ark and Yahweh really did flood the entire earth.
Seriously, there are times when you sound completely round the bend.
Genocide? Wrong word there fella. Are you deaf and blind?
FOR 120 YRS MEN WERE GIVEN OPPORTUNITY TO AMEND THEIR WAYS. 120 yrs.
Seems God was rather patient, but no, you will ignore this loving kindness of Almighty God.
So indeed, a ship was built- and it rained, and rained, and rained. Read the narrative. God shut the door, Noah was safe.
As to the good ladies you mentioned, I’m pretty sure they believe scripture instead of you.
Genocide is the correct term.
Your god is said to have destroyed every lifeform on the planet save one incestuous family and
a boatload of animals including dinosaurs, according to mentally unstable YEC.
I suspect the ladies in question will take a more sensible approach and lean mire toward scientific evidence rather than side with a flat earth fanatic.
The tale is simply fiction, of course, plagiarised and adapted from the Take of Gilgamesh.
The conversation is useful to they who may be watching from the weeds. Your excuses never change, as trish noted.
How many times do I need to repeat: for 120 yrs God was patient…… If I told you not to enter the forest unarmed- and I warned you a thousand times/ then you go thinking ‘the pretty little bear and me are all one with nature……..’ then he claws and eats you alive, am I responsible for your stupidity???
As far as G-mesh- yep, they alluded to a catastrophic event/ however- only scripture reveals the time/purpose/ and the scope- before and after. Many cultures made note of the same.
The global flood as related in the bible is simply a myth.
You are one very delusional individual, CS.
I wonder sometimes at what point did the train of your life not only go off the rails but take a nose dive straight over the cliff.
ark, why do you waste so much time arguing with people over things that you think are myths anyway? seems like it’d take a lot of energy and life out of your day. if you don’t believe, why not just not believe and be done with all the wrangling with christians on WP? prob better for your mindset and heart health (cortisol and stress being as damaging as they can be on the arteries and heart)
LikeLiked by 1 person
Oh, it is no stress at all!
I generally avoid CS as he has more sandwiches missing from his picnic hamper than the crowd that traipsed after Jesus.
Furthermore, there is always the chance someone may happen by and after reading realise they have been duped and what they have been indoctrinated with what is a load of crappola.
And it is also fun.
Ark, so you see yourself as a type of “evangelist” or “missionary” then?
Nah, not really
I’ve had an interest in religion since I wrote a novel in which one of the characters was a sort of Moses figure.
I thought I’d do a bit of background research just to flesh out my character and so read the articles in my encyclopedia.
To my surprise I discovered he was nothing more than a myth and my interest was kindled.
Remember, I come from a culturally Christian background, albeit mostly laissez faire but the Bible stories we were regaled with as kids were never really questioned so I believed all the people were real, even if I scoffed at all the miracle rubbish.
I have read a considerable amount over time and the more I delved into it the more I realised just how much utter crap it is.
And then I began to encounter the Christian internet nutters ..
I once had a ‘Tete a Tete’ with a full blown US pastor called Christopher, who swore blind that the Exodus was fact as chariot wheels had been discovered on the floor of the Red Sea by archaeologists and he had been preaching this amazing find to his flock,FFS!
Now, when I pointed out that this was a hoax, and his archaeologist was none other than con man extrordinaire the late Ron Wyatt he confirmed my assertion but refused to believe I was telling the truth. He then went off at me claiming I was a tool of the devil. I kid you not.
Eventually, however, he said he would read up on it.
The next thing he had taken down his site never to be heard from again.
And of course there are YEC.
And theses mentally unstable f***wits want to get ID taught in schools.
Have you ever read the Wedge Document?
So, for me it is a fascinating subject and the more I research the more I learn.
But if you really want to see what happens to people when they realise it is all a con, pop over to the clergyproject.com
Some of the stories are tough. If that doesn’t open your eyes and make you sit up and take notice then nothing will.
Amazing. But yeah, I’m a Christian. Not gonna change. I went thru a period a while back, not so recent I guess, where I questioned and researched my Faith. Found nothing that would make me reject Christ. Sorry to say ark, “your Jedi mid tricks don’t work on me”. Lol. For me, the bible is the Word of God, and Jesus is my very breath and Life. Do i sometimes have problems with what I read and see? I’d prob be dishonest if I said I didn’t. But nothing has come close in 41yrs to shaking or sinking my Faith in God or Jesus, my saviour and very Life.
Again,this is what everyday our Christian asserts. I get that.
So no jedi mind tricks. Seriously, I do not think one will deconvert after chatting with an atheist like me!
I really am not that social it clued up.
If doubt arises it comes from yourself, or so I’ve been told by numerous deconverts.
For these people the worst is the realisation they were conned and stupid enough to believe. Their words.
Some have develooedsevere guilt because they Indoctrinated their kids, and this is where my ire rises.
You may never deconvert.
C’est la vie.
But if you do as much research as I have then in the face of the overwhelming evidence gyou must be tough as nails to hold onto your faith.
Typo sorry. ‘Every devout Christian asserts’.
Silly “goose”, I think if you “gandered” at my bookshelves you might be surprised what you’d find there. I read widely. But no… at the end of the day, I’m a Christian,
Every Christian will swear by their faith and the Word of God… Until the day they don’t.
I have a US blog pal called Nate Owens who was raised in a highly conservative community.
Over time he lost his faith and along with his wife, deconverted.
He was rejected and ostracised by his entire family, Dad,Mum siblings etc, friends and church.
Nobody talked to him for a long time.
Even his small kids were disowned.
You can feel the love, right?
You gotta love religion.
Nah… gotta hate religion. It destroys. Jesus gives life. I’ll stick with Him
That’s funny. Sad, but funny.
The Church invented Christianity, and that includes the character Jesus of Nazareth.
After all, they compiled the bible.They established the doctrine and invented the Trinity.
So, I wouldn’t be so set on your ‘Jesus’.
The church invented Jesus? Now THAT’S funny
Really? The character as portrayed in the gospels is a narrative construct.
Surely you actually believe the rose from the dead Lake Tiberius Pedestrian was a genuine historical figure?
Yes, I believe in a literal, historical Jesus. And I believe by Faith that Jesus rose from the dead.
I am thinking you may not be understanding the point.
That there could well have been an itinerant 1st century peasant / rabbi(?) called Yeshua is quite possible.
Such people were a ‘dime a dozen’ if you accept some of things people such as Josephus had to say.
However … and this is where you need to listen carefully… the character Jesus of Nazareth as portrayed in the anonymous gospels, the born of a virgin Lake Tiberius Pedestrian & instant viticulturist along with all the other hyperbole and paraphernalia attached to him is a narrative construct.
He is not mentioned by anyone during his supposed ministry.
Furthermore, as for your claim you believe in the resurrection on faith .. well good for you, at least you didn’t try to do a Habermas or Strobel and claim there is evidence. I’m sure you know that the long ending of gMark is an interpolation( fraud)?
I read somewhere there are actually three different endings
Also, criminals sentenced to crucifixion for sedition were left on the cross to rot.
The notion of a tomb is risible, and considered a late addition to the tale.
And of course no tomb was ever found….for good reason!
Faith will only take you so far.
Eventually it becomes harder and harder to dupe yourself.
Remember, you’re only a ‘sinner’ if you allow others to convince you.
Imagine spending eternity in heaven with the likes of Tom and CS!
Good grief .. the mind boggles.
Best of luck.
Here is a free lesson on theology 101. Scripture needs no authoritative source to confirm its truthfulness. It testifies to itself.
‘Notion’ of a tomb? Again, Ha! Tis a fact.
‘He is not mentioned by anyone.’ No kidding Sherlock. People not interested in comic books do not go to comic book conventions either. It’s matter of interest.
And faith? Ha! You utilize it a thousand times a day, taking for granted the car coming toward you will not end your life.
Crucifixion? Yes. Roman law. But Jewish law was begged to be followed by Joseph. Smart man there.
Can I also remind you of the Psalms heads up ‘my God my God why hast thou forsaken me?’ Spoken years later by guess who??? A prophetic text any godly Jew would recognize.
Scripture doesn’t care what history says about it. God loses no sleep by infidel librarians. After all, He created the alphabet as well as arithmetic. Alpha and Omega. Ever heard of it? The beginning and the end? Yep, that is He who is above all.
Come to this site bringing garbage, and you will be met with swift recycling. 😉
In the immortal words of that most astute
of Jesus documentaries, Life of Brian: “He’s making it up as he goes along.”
Scripture will ALWAYS have the last word.
Please read Romans ch. 1 in the illustrious language of the kjv 1611.
See if you can spot the effulgent points leading directly to you. Like any temporary illness, the pain subsides once drenched in daylight.
Than as you in desperate need of a cure, may I recommend a double viewing of Life of Brian and then immerse yourself in the deconversion testimonies of those over at the clergyproject?
All good stuff.
Yeah ark, all testimonies by disgruntled customers. Familiar with your nate, nan, then there are the priests, reverends, pastors, aron types, blah blah..
Not one understands scripture as written, and ALL sit in judgement of the Crestor, just like you. Tell me something new.
Btw, did u know that Genesis 1.1 speaks of space, time, and matter, the trinity of modern science so worshipped today,. Yep, God and His word is waaaay ahead.
Well, it has kept you shackled to stupidity so …
Oh, I imagine there will be far worse examples than Tom or CS. Me for one. But where ever, whatever, whenever “heaven” is, it is where God Himself is and that’s all that matters. I’m not fully convinced that we have a complete grasp, or ever could for that matter, of those two concepts… the Person of God and the Place called Heaven… But I have Hope and I have Faith that regardless of my own limited understanding or ability to fully suss it out, there is a God of infinite love and acceptance and there is a Place where He lives and is waiting for as many as want to be with Him. Ark, I know that doesn’t do it for you, but it’s the best I can explain for now. Cheers.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ah, the power of indoctrination.
Hey ark, serious question. Are u aware of the countless people from many nations across the world who have ‘indoctrinated’ themselves- by simple reading- uninfluenced by anybody- and have concluded by honesty that scripture is good, and that Gods word is true?
What say ye of these people- some very smart people- who would reject ENTIRELY your assessment of them.
Must make the likes of Nates/ etc skin crawl….. Apparently there are a multitude of worldlings who do not suffer from reading comprehension.
Yessir, every tribe, nation, tongue, and kindred. The only indoctrination is listening to the hissing voices:
‘hath God really said…….?’
No such person exists.
You might think… But you’d be wrong. Not “indoctrinated” as if I had no choice or ability to resist or question. I was taught and learned of my own free will and acceptance. There is a difference.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Indoctrination manifests in different forms.
Perhaps it might be more accurate to assert you were influenced.
After all, you didn’t choose Islam.
Therefore there was at least some sort of cultural influence.
You and I have both been exposed to a culturally Christian upbringing.By this I mean we both know the bible tales, Christmas, Easter, and all the characters involved.
You may have recited the Lord’s prayer during morning assembly at school, attended Sunday school, went to church on occasion and/or come into contact with Christians at school college or university.
All these encounters, subtle though they may be play a role.
Now, factor in some emotional or traumatic event and if you are not inclined toward medical intervention where are you going to turn when the chips are down?
Oh, I know!!!
Mohammed and Allah!
The added problem is you are obliged to confess to being a sinner (sic) and all the added nonsense that goes with this.
When you saw the hook dangling in the water you took the bait. Hook,line and sinker.
‘You didn’t choose is-lam.’ That’s right, but many have, including Americans with zero middle eastern upbringing. They also chose witchcraft, marrying animals, identifying as ‘it,’ etc. so where is the indoctrination?
Granted, these people will wear out their welcome and try something new, the same way people trade hobbies, but ONLY Christianity reveals the grace of God, which by extension, rules out every other Ism.
There will always be counterfeits. God has no competitor. You know, the owner of gold and not Fort Knox. Does this thought ever cross your mind…
For what it’s worth, people who may have ‘tried’ Christianity and then spoke of wasted years, it’s simple. They were indoctrinated. They became influenced by things/ people who pretended to know more than God. They listened to the whispers: ‘Goliath was a tale, Moses never lived, Daniel never spent a minute with lions, Cain didn’t kill his brother……
They had to relieve themselves of the itching ear syndrome. But back to main point:
Pure or froward?
Those that have chosen Islam will have succumbed to a greater degree of influence, that’s all.
Children from Muslim famies will almost certainly grow up Muslim until or unless a greater influence takes its place.
Indoctrination wears several hats, CS.
You consider the earth to be flat, for goodness’ sake, and I’ll guarantee you didn’t get that from a scientific publication! 😄
It isn’t hard to imagine, especially these days with the numbers of Muslims settling in former Christian dominated western societies.
Within 100 years Islam will very likely be the dominant religion in most Western societies, certainly in Europe.
I have no need or desire to reply to your Religious waffle.
The main point?
Religious belief is not based on evidence.
Tkx ark- but u are continuing to argue with your self- and losing. Where is the indoctrination of seeing Israel become a nation – Again…… who twisted arms to believe God said as much – because His word is better than yours? Evidence? Open your eyes.
Are you aware that the word ‘religion’ is used twice in the Bible, and NEVER in the context in which u argue. This should trouble you. This is where the likes of Nate/ nan etc etc miss the boat and apparently you.
Lastly, if you really cared about what is TRUE, you would actually seek what scripture says about life and nature without bias – read of things that men cannot answer, and see that God had already answered.
Suffice it to say Job was much smarter than any astronomer and received answers that shut his mouth. Ever had your mouth shut? It’s a good thing.
Your Israel off shoot is meaningless in context.
Israel was established as much for political reasons as any and you should know this.
Behaving like an ass in this regard is stupid and had no bearing on this thread.
The rest of your comments is the usual drivel one has come to expect from you as you are simply unable to make a coherent comment or salient point.
Truly, you should sign into Ken Ham’s Facebook page
You would be so much more at home.
tkx but once again your magician act is uncovered. You keep applying sleight of hand when Bar levelled your charge ‘indoctrination.’ You backed off and changed the meaning.
‘Israel’ is proof that God’s word is good- no indoctrination necessary to believe what was seemingly impossible. No wonder you cry ‘foul,’ as the ‘apple of His eye’ is assaulted.
‘We will run them into the sea, and obliterate Israel from the earth,’ so sez the religious and political fools. Jerusalem is the epicenter of God’s promises, and a thorn in the side of all who hate His word. Politics plays as a smokescreen.
And what you call drivel is a perfectly placed arrow. I understand why it troubles you. And i dont do bookface.
the meaning, merely tried to qualify it.
For example, the child sitting at its parent’s knee listening to the Christian crap espoused by their evangyfundy is most definitely Indoctrinated.
Bar, who like most of us who grew up in the Christian influenced West and when faced with some difficult emotional / traumatic issues turns to the religion he is most familiar with – Christianity.
Even clever fellows such as Francis Collins succumbed and he headed the HGP showing that the Adam and Eve tale is a load of bollox.
Yeah, Collins. More gripes from clay pots. He is dead wrong. Period. As his research and catalogs are helpful- they ultimately fall short.
Let God be true and every man a a liar. He will one day admit his calculations were missing a doughnut from the box. He will change, but God’s word abides.
Says the man who claims the earth is flat.
Yeah, Collins would take your opinion seriously.
I am sure even Tricia is embarrassed at times by the level of your abject stupidity.
I see no reason to defend my own Faith, and even less to defend the Gospel itself anymore than you would need to defend or substantiate your own disbelief in my reasons for believing or your own reasons for not. Again, I get it. You don’t believe… I do. In the words of Jesus, somewhat stretched to apply “there is a great chasm fixed”. I cannot cause you to cross and neither will in cross to you. We all must decide.. or believe/disbelieve.. for ourselves. All I can do is share the Gospel. It’s up to you to believe or not.
I CAN easily defend my lack of religious belief.
I am not asking you to defend your faith.
I am asserting you can produce no evidence for it and it is the result of some form of Indoctrination/ outside Influence( cultural/ family/ peers) friends) exacerbated by emotional/ traumatic issues you were unable to deal with other than through religion.
And before someone “ats” me about “giving an answer or reason for the Hope that is within me”, giving the answer or the reason does not me it’s my job to convincingly defend it. You believe or not. I leave the decision to you. I’m not asking you to defend why you don’t believe.
I don’t. The complete lack of evidence for your god claims are why I am an atheist, for goodness’ sake!
I never suggested you ask me to defend my lack of belief, I merely said I can; easily as well.
The only issue here is that you believe and why.
I am asserting that your belief stems from indoctrination / influence ( cultural, wilfull or otherwise) prompted by emotional / traumatic issues that you felt could only be solved by Christianity.
However, there is no evidence whatsoever of the claims assertions made by those who want you to remain a Christian: namely that you are a sinner, require salvation via the blood of the first century human sacrifice, Jesus of Nazareth, and all the other doctrinal nonsense.
You don’t have to make answer,noone is saying you do. However, you are on a sort of discussion forum telling everyone here you are a (born again?) Christian.
So, it is natural for someone like me to ask :
What the Gehenna for?
I re-read this and realised it should have said: Surely you DON’T actually believe etc etc …
Oh, for an edit facility … Sigh.
Just have to add color to u Bar/ it is common to doubt/question/ heck even the baptist was troubled/ the Lord had to send a personal convoy to him, in effect, ‘don’t worry, john, I am He.’
Slick attorneys try to raise doubt to get an acquittal for a client. Truth prevails.
And conversely Bar- you may fairly ask why do I post that which raises the ire of naysayers/
Simple. You should agree. We testify what we know. We speak of God’s goodness and His enduring promises. Can’t see how anybody would argue against a worldwide flood btw/ after all- 70% + water? If we would only think.
Then there is the waters above. 6′ of snow in the Rockies- Imagine all that precipitation coming down like a blanket- at once! But nope, the Creator dissects it into flakes so we can further see His glory.
Thought for the day, when asked about WHY I believe in literalism in scripture:
I take it literal when it’s obvious. The walls of Jericho was no dream to interpret. Daniel in the den was not difficult to understand. The account of a catastrophic flood, while punishing, happened, and God does not lie, but men do.
i’ve never worried my head asking why you post blogs that “raise the ires”. “I believed therefore i have spoken” comes to mind from the “pen of a ready writer”. although the psalmist was writing specifically in his affliction, i’m sure he won’t mind the stretched application. cheers.
LikeLiked by 2 people