Why do I say delight? Because of a man’s willingness to engage science using science at the risk of appearing foolish. Here we see logic and facts utilized to challenge what is long assumed. Popularity is no guarantee of certainty.
Love the way this fella contrasted speed and stillness. Whether you believe it or not, it is pure awesome. Let the four corners of the earth sing in agreement? (full screen of course)
The Lions Den 
as you say—no matter whether one believes or not as to the roundness or the flatness–the overall mind blowing amazingness found in either still or motion—that a God loves us so, that a God so incredibly powerful and beyond our tiny comprehension should love us so as to provide such stability and grandeur while making each and every component of the galaxy fit together in unison and harmony..as in every tiny and large thing thing has its place (mis en place), fitting perfectly together in sync—and loves us tiny little specs so much that He would continue wooing us, seeking us, longing for us…leaves me humbled and in tears
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‘Humbled and in tears.’
I would say I have succeeded in putting forth this vid, regardless. 😉
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Yes you have
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Ha! I love that, Colorstorm. A delightful video indeed.
I always wonder, with all this spinning,orbiting, and elipticals, all faster than the speed of sound, where’s the traffic cop? There simply must be some stop lights! We can’t just can’t have all these bodies randomly flinging through space in multiple directions. That doesn’t work on freeways, so it’s certainly not going to go down well in space. The math is much too hard, but the probability of that much movement going on in such a coordinated manner just defies all equations. It simply isn’t possible. At the very least, it suggests there must be a Conductor.
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Yes, your last line is true enough. And I’m pretty sure the Creator is not in the business of tricking His creatures.
We can do that without His help. It is a most interesting topic nonetheless.
The speeds and motion per the vid is mind blowing, contrasted to the dead still lake was genius.
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Amazingly, gravity is the conductor.
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The ‘theory’ of gravity was needed to justify a spinning globe silence, but many brilliant minds have seen this as a mathematical farce, and scientific impossibility and fraud to promote an earth that is not God designed, which contradicts the laws of logic, nature, common sense, facts, and scripture. 😉
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Storm,
Such a “theory” of gravity is but another atheist hallucination.
The real theory of gravity points to the existence of God, just like all other proven theories of science.
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-SoM
It’s a shame then that believers from Adam to Abraham to David to Joshua (who with God’s approval had the sun halted 10 degrees) to Jonah to Matthew to Gamaliel to Peter, James, John, Paul, Lydia, on and on were somehow exempt from understanding the very terra firma that they walked on as they communicated with the God who made the very dirt?
We somehow think we were smarter than they, and that God hid this knowledge from them?
I don’t think so silence, as a matter of fact, they would have eaten our lunch in the arts and sciences.
Modern technology is no substitute for what is always true.
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Storm,
Modern technology is an expression of modern science.
Therefore it is an expression of what is true, materially speaking of course.
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You say theory of gravity as if it’s not an established fact of physics?
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I say many great minds have begged to differ; throughout thousands of years, as well as today, and they also say that the illusion of curvature and the perfectness of sea level is enough proof.
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You’ve reached a new level of Delusion, cs. This is going to be fun
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Save it for your site mike. Invite Silence as you have an ally!! 😉
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Ay yes mike, you have afforded me the same delusion that you say of all believers who are certain that Moses lived, Daniel was in fact tossed into a den, and that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that Saul then Paul was a servant of the living God, whose epistles were testimony to the God of all grace.
So thank you for yet another undeserved compliment.
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Storm,
It is you who are an ally of the atheist. You are simply another version of them.
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So… What is your take on his view? This seems to be an increasingly popular view.
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Well, his view is both agreed upon and frowned upon by brilliant minds, not only men of today, but truly men of renown, whose knowledge of such things embarrasses modern science and especially modern astronomy.
It does seem rather odd that a child must rely on so-called learned men to convince him otherwise of what his eyes naturally see; this is a huge disconnect to common sense, and I think God would not approve of such things.
Sometimes the simplest explanation.is the most profound. In looking at this possibility of what has long been assumed, I must say there are more questions than answers patrick, but I’m also sure scripture provides the answers.
The idea of curvature being absent is most interesting, and of course, the hidden gem is Antartica, where John Kerry visited when he knew Ms. Clinton lost. That’s another story. 😉
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lol…I will readily admit that I enjoy watching science shows with many views differing than mine. Heck, I don’t believe in Big Foot but find myself intrigued every time a hunt for him is broadcast.
As for the earth, I do believe it to be round.
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See, that’s the thing; it doesn’t matter what you believe about the shape of the Earth. Then Earth is a sphere. This is fact no amount of scripture or piety can alter. That’s where CS goes wrong; he can’t think outside of his beliefs so his ability to think is retar…severely constrained.
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And yet tildeb, it is I who draws my conclusions from logic, common sense, and of course the laws of repeatable observations, also known as science, as well as scripture.
You would have people think that it was impossible for mankind to know what kind of earth they walk on until ‘smart people’ came along and convinced them. Ha!
As if a kid couldn’t tell you what he sees with his own eyes. But maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you are an ant that can walk on a basketball….
Sorry tildeb, it is you who pitches your tent with the Nyes and Degrasses; men who in my opinion are scientific comedians.
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You know, cs, when I encounter an idea that I think deserves a closer look, I tend to allow real world expertise a place at the table. I don’t reject expertise out of hand because its use for the idea doesn’t agree with my presumption contrary to it.
You do.
You present yourself as more informed about astrophysics than Neil deGrasse Tyson. More, in fact, than every scientist at NASA, every scientist at Jet Propulsion Laboratories that designs and implements missile technology and guidance systems like global positioning devices not just for for military applications that work but common enough to work in your cell phone this very minute.
What you presume to wear is a mantle of expertise based on an authority not for the subject you are presenting but an authority gifted to you, ColorStorm, by The Creator of The Universe through your religious belief. That’s mentally ill because it requires a massively inflated and delusional sense of pious entitlement combined with a level of egotistical hubris that is second to none. You think you’re the smartest, best informed guy in the world compared to these dolts like Tyson who design navigation systems for thousands upon thousands of planes flying every day. You. CS. You know better. They’re ALL wrong. But not you. No sir. You know better. Your god whispers in your ear and tells you you’re always right. And you think this is a justification worthy of consideration? It’s worthy of outright dismissal because it’s clearly and unequivocally deluded. Because of all these applications, therapies, and technologies that work by using the scientific method to inform one’s confidence in explanatory models, reality itself and thousands of different ways stands against this flat earth model… all of which you dismiss for no other reason – certainly no better reason – than you don’t want to. Well, CS, you can’t make up your own facts and expect to be treated by any rational person with anything other than disdain.
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Well mr tildeb, I must say you do not know me at all, for many men’s opinions whom I admire, who also happen to be engineers, scientists, surveyors, pilots on sea and air, doctors, lawyers, landscapers, you name it, happen to have opinions differing from yours.
Take this quote for example:
“[Einstein’s theory of relativity is] a magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king… its exponents are brilliant men, but they are meta-physicists rather than scientists.” So sez Tesla, and thus do I say the same regarding your heroes Nye, Degrasse and such.
They have proven nothing. But you actually do reject true science, for the compass, the level, and the laser condemns you.
As for making up facts, uh hello? It is a fact there is zero curvature, and water finds its own level. Do your homework, and don’t eat the food of others opinions you have not tasted.
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Cells phones, CS? Geosynchronous orbits? Global positioning devices? Guidance systems? Air traffic control? Why do all these work, CS, if, as you insist, the spherical model on which they are based is wrong?
These are just a few of the modern applications. But we don;t need these. All you need is the sun and the moon. You can’t even explain sun shadows and make the flat Earth model compatible with the phases of the moon. No model works other than a spherical earth. But go ahead. Knock yourself out. Earn a Nobel prize! After all, you know better than all these pathetic astrophysicists like Tyson.
You have all your work before you. And I look forward to seeing you ‘solve’ this intractable problem the flat Earth model presents with all of today’s modern use of the spherical earth. I stand ready to be amazed at your keen insight. .
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That’s nice tildeb. Whales do fine underwater communicating without the need for triangulation above.
But try telling them they are flying through space at insane speeds, they just may laugh, and for the record, modern man does not have the drop on intellect.
For the love of pete, men do not even give God the courtesy of existing, so there is a good chance a still and glassy lake will not make the point either.
Mans knowledge is embarrasingly pathetic today apart from truth.
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No, what’s pathetic is your willingness to stick with what you believe over and above overwhelming evidence that this belief is not worthy of high levels of confidence. For crying out loud, you can zip along the highway at very high speeds holding a cup of hot coffee. It’s not the speed of the car that determines the stillness of its surface any more than the constant speed of the Earth’s rotation is somehow in question by the stillness of a lake.
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Tildeb-
I am sorry you do not see the greater point. The ‘lake’ idea is merely to suggest the reality of what your eyes see, and how you then make the leap of contradictions by your theories.
But ask yourself: why can an ant walk on a basketball, and you cannot? Is it the size of your feet? Is it the same ‘gravity’ that keeps the little fella intact, while repelling you?
And btw, I make no claim to ‘greater knowledge’ than anybody else. And I have no issue with others who disagree. After all tildeb, not all are at the same mile markers in life; we are not insects in our field. If you think the Tysons are geniuses, good for you. I think they lack common sense.
But at the end of the day, there is a God in heaven, whether you believe it or not is your business, but it causes Him no lack of sleep.
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Well you are in good company patrick, after all: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in. 😉
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I once asked my astronomy professor why the constellations were all backwards in the southern hemisphere.
He told me to go hang myself upside down from a tree branch and then take a look at the world.
He did think I was a nuisance most of the time and at first I thought he was calling me a dummkopf in his not so subtle German way , but that time he was being serious.
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Why doesn’t a fly doing 0.5 mph inside the car, splatter against the windshield of a car doing 50 mph?
Because it is travelling with the car.
Similarly, oceans, streams and rivers are traveling with the Earth. That’s is why they are at peace (except when the weather is bad).
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Yeah, S, I heard that before. You may want to consult jet pilots though, or land surveyors, or shipping captains, who in their figuring, make no compensation for curvature.
Sea level is a reality and a bitch. It’s a topic worth looking into as I said. God is genius and needs no help from Einstein.
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They are all traveling with the Earth too, just like the entire atmosphere.
And ship captains today use GPS (global positioning satellites) because curvature does indeed make a difference.
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Are you saying that the aforementioned men and women of history and faith were clueless as to the positioning of the created earth in relation to God?
Are you saying they all taught their children ‘errors’ regarding the very terra firma?
C’mon silence, give them more credit, after all, they had the same eyes as we, and the same scriptures.
10 degrees?
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Storm,
The question isn’t about the ancients understanding the relation between earth and God.
The question is about nature of Earth and universe.
If a person can’t understand that a lake is peaceful because it is traveling with the Earth, and therefore at the same velocity as the Earth, than that person doesn’t possess enough common sense to understand that God does indeed exit as a matter of fact, not faith.
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Cs, let me get this straight… you don’t believe the earth has a curvature or rotates?
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Just for you mike:
When the railroads were laid hundreds of years ago, there was ZERO compensation for curvature. ZERO. This is science. This is fact. Do you possibly understand this? Uncomfortable for you I’m sure.
Ever heard of sea level? The ship that you cannot see ‘disappearing’ over the horizon, can easily be seen with binoculars. There is this thing called perspective.
The so called 8inch squared per mile of curvature is non existent, proven by land surveyors, airmen, missile experts, balloonists, sea captains, the compass, and the sheer fact that no matter how high you go, the horizon always rises to eye level. ALWAYS. A truth impossible if there was curvature.
As to your cartoon vids, keep them to your self.
(and because you have just posted this link at your place, with your usual vile commentary attached, please do nor comment here on this thread further, and have a field day)
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With your post, cs… you’ve given great opportunity for unbelievers of all stripes to mock the bible, Christians and the god you believe in. Great job. You’ve made my job much easier. Recovery Awaits! Lol
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Don’t expect mike that your clock will not be cleaned by scripture.
The earth was made by the Creator………THEN the sun and the moon……….THEN the stars. 😉
Mock it all you want. Be my guest. The sun will lose none of its heat by your comedy, and the moon will continue to give her light.
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I hadn’t realized that you were as anti-science as atheists.
That means your Christian faith, just like atheism has no attachment to the physical reality we live in.
Jesus was born into this world because our faith is indeed attached to physical reality.
Consequently, you like the atheist, have a faith that denies the reality of Jesus.
To you, he’s just a hallucination, something you can’t prove or explain, but something you can only pontificate about.
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Gee Silence, that’s an accusation that even my enemies would argue against.
Did the sun stand still ? True science has an answer to this. Never fear true science as opposed to what God warned us of: ‘science falsely called.’
God is light years ahead of all our gripes and doubts.
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Storm,
The question presented here is why are lakes so peaceful when the Earth is rotating at Mach 1.3?
The answer is that lakes are peaceful because they are traveling with the Earth and therefore, at the same velocity as the Earth.
Saying simply, that God did it, is Medieval.
It is correct but blindingly ignorant because we know the exact answer to the question.
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You are putting yourself in the same box silence you accuse others of being in.
There is ZERO proof the earth moves one inch. True science agrees with the laws of observation, facts, and common sense. You do not trust your eyes, but you trust unprovable theories? c’mon.
As to your fly, true, we are not insects, and cannot walk on the ceiling of the equator.
10 degrees? yeah, that’s incriminating and a reason to stay away. 😉
(Jump in Patrick. 😉
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Storm,
There has been proof that the Earth moves through space since the 17th century.
Kepler and Copernicus both proved that the Earth is moving through space.
Saying that there is ZERO proof that the Earth moves one inch, is pure ignorance, a denial of what has become nearly obvious.
What do you think the Moon is doing?
Is it standing still as it moves across the sky night after night?
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So you have answered that Moses, Abraham Adam,Deborah, Esther, Mordecai, Solomon, and all the heroes of life and faith were clueless as the corners of the earth, and they were lost as fog regarding the earths movement or lack thereof, and that the common knowledge of the life and times of the earth and universe was lost until modern astrononomy?
Sorry, Silence, I am not buying it. And God does not expect reasonable people to agree with such an assertion.
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Storm,
Yes, I am saying that ancient people had no idea about the cosmology of the universe.
Clearly, such things were not their concerns.
The Bible was written in a way that clearly differentiated the Revealed knowledge of God (Hebrew religion) from the pagan religions in the Middle and Near Eastern hinterlands.
The purpose of Hebrew scripture was never to explain why a fly or its human driver don’t fly out of the back of a car that is traveling 60 mph.
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Silence
Your first sentence in this comment is embarrassing to the intellect of men and women, and an insult to God who created the brain. They were far superior than Copernicus in understanding what their eyes told them.
Does Pleides and Orion ring a bell?
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Storm,
Have you ever been to a magic show?
The magician makes book on being able to fool people into understanding what he (the magician) wants them to see.
Modern science has allowed the human race to see God’s miraculous universe far beyond anything that can be seen with the eye alone.
I deal with instrumentation that detects viruses, proteins, nucleic acids, all created by God.
Am I to reject what the instruments tell me just because my own eyes can’t see things that small.
Say, do germs, viruses, proteins and nucleic acids not exist because I can’t see them with my eyes and because they aren’t mentioned in the Bible?
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Ah but Silence, we are talking about things we see!!!
You need to reconcile God’s word that He says the earth is ‘immoveable.’ His words, not mine.
I tend to agree with Him, and my eyes do also.
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Storm,
“I agree with God, therefore it is true,” is not a rational argument.
Anyone can say that about anything and claim that what they are saying is true.
Thus you are like an atheist and Jihadi, not Christian at all.
Science guides us to an understanding of the nature of God through rational thinking and systematic experimentation.
If we know through science (the God-given understanding of the natural world he made just for us) that the Earth moves through space in at least four ways (rotation, revolution around the sun, accompanying the Sun as it moves through the Milky Way galaxy and accompanying the Milky Way as it traverses galactic space)…
…then the conclusion is that your understanding of scripture is dead wrong.
You need to think a little deeper about what “immoveable” actually means in the context in which it is used.
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Silence-
Just an observation, and I hope somebody else chimes in toward this thought:
Based on my rock solid defense of God, scripture, and how I consistently defend each, it is puzzling how all of a sudden I am public enemy number 1 because my dots do not line up with yours. 😉
As I said, and repeated, many brilliant minds disagree with you, using the same science against this or that.
It is worth mentioning that the spirit in which you now carry your points have supplied massive credibility to my opinions. 😉
(by the way, the vid points out a spinning ball with water un-attached………flinging off the surface………, as water is not contained; it is not ON THE EARTH, as God distinguished the waters from the earth.)
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Storm,
You are a barbarian pagan in the post modern age, posing as a Christian.
You and your kind (there are 100’s of millions of you) are the reason Western Civilization is collapsing.
That doesn’t make you public enemy number one since you are part of a very large herd of human beasts.
It makes me public enemy number one, in fact.
If good people like you can’t figure out why lakes and oceans remain stable on a moving planet, we have truly entered into a dark age.
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Tkx for this Silence. I think you have brought a great deal of enlightenment to this innocuous vid/post, in more ways than you imagine.
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Som… “Not a rational argument” to agree with god? To paraphrase another skeptic quoted in the bible… “almost thou persuadeth me to be a…” non christian
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Storm,
Do you think the Moon is motionless as it moves across the sky night after night?
If you really think about these things you are going to experience cognitive dissonance and either go out and learn about the real world God has created, or you are going to take the easy way out and become an atheist.
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Now you are onto something silence. As the moon moves, so does the sun. 😉
10 degrees backward? But hey, I simply believe the scriptures.
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Storm,
Imagine that you were standing on the Moon.
You would see the Earth and Sun move across the sky just like you see the Moon and Sun travel across the sky as you stand on Earth.
Thus, you can prove yourself wrong by just thinking a little bit.
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Som, cs seems to be willing to discount any and all evidence that he thinks contradicts the ‘clear reading of scripture’. He told me so, he just doesn’t care about outside sources of confirmation or refutation.
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Be honest mike. The context of my NOT CARING is in direct proportion to YOUR assertion that the ko-ran is in the same universe as the word of God, aka, the Holy Bible. In that context, I do not care what the ko-ran says.
If you cite me, get your facts straight.
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Also, regarding the fly in the car…
Why doesn’t the driver who is stationary get thrown out of the back of the car that is moving at 60 mph.
The answer is, because like the fly, the drive is traveling with the car.
So that statement that the people are not flies is simply stupid.
And as happens with atheists, I fear that I am trying to have a rational conversation with a superstitious idolater.
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It’s amazing what we reveal about ourselves when what was once thought to be precious fellowship, becomes rancid and unnecessary accusations because of differing pov’s, yes?
Wedges are not needed. As I said at the top of the vid, many brilliant minds differ, and will continue to differ.
Julie (cookie) brought it back to earth, and I really doubt if she would agree with your ‘idol’ assessment of me. just sayin.
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Storm,
If you believe the Earth is standing still, than you are indeed a superstitious, Medieval heathen.
Blaming me for you being what you are is a typical atheist tactic.
There simply is no excuse for modern people who truly benefit from the miracles of modern science to be so ignorant.
Kepler, Copernicus and Galileo were all Christians.
What you profess is not Christian, it is pagan ignorance dressed up like a Medici pope.
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Hey, now. I don’t agree with ColorStorm that the earth stands still and I don’t agree with the flat earth theory, but there’s no reason to accuse him of being a pagan/unChristian.
Science is not morality, SOM. It’s beautiful and a testament to God’s intelligent design, but it’s not something you can deny someone’s salvation over. Nowhere has ColorStorm said that God is not the Creator of this universe or that Christ didn’t rise from the dead, so you can’t just go and compare him to an atheist.
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Love,
Science is not morality as you say. But willful ignorance in the name of God is not only immoral, it is blasphemy.
That is why my objection to Storm’s Medieval worldview is so strenuous.
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Silence-
did you actually think about the ramifications of the vid? Do you understand the fact that the laying of railroads utterly destroys the globe model as there is no compensation for curvature?
Do you understand the truth of the science of engineering in this regard?
Do you realize that you are citing the man of God Joshua as a liar?
Do you understand that the earth was made BEFORE the sun and the moon and the stars?
Do you fear the truth of scripture?
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Storm,
Again, the answer is simple and nearly obvious.
Roads and rail are built literally inch by inch.
Such a small scale makes curvature as relevant for the road builder as it does for the home builder or the guitar maker.
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Silence
For your information the carpenters level has long been a favorite tool of mine. It is a pure work of genius, inspired no doubt by the Creator to ‘figure things out.’
The four foot level embarrasses your dismissive comment, as if it cannot be trusted to find level over a hundred feet.
And the surveyors transit while laying rails (over more than a few inches, but mile after mile) saw no compensation, nor the need for curvature. This is science. You may want to consider this.
But there’s more. the modern laser has also proven sea level which is impossible on a globe. Sorry, but nature, facts, and common sense win the day.
Maybe you should actually study the matter?
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Storm,
I am afraid that I see the answer to your carpenter’s level as did Isaac Newton.
But only because I’ve been educated and trained as an engineer.
That is as the tangent to a specific point on a curve.
The point on the curve, like the road being laid down in infinitesimally small compared to the curve (in this case the surface of the Earth).
At this point the math becomes simple algebra used to compute length, width and height.
Consequently, the to understanding your error is to understand the extreme small scale upon which the road builder and surveyor work in comparison to the size of the Earth.
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Storm,
With instruments like the Hubble Space Telescope we can actually see the formation of planets and stars.
The components (the earth) do assemble first, due to gravity and then the star-planet system develops over its entire existence.
Our system, the Solar System continues to develop and thus change.
For example, Mars once had great seas running water and a rich atmosphere.
But Mars is to small to possess the gravity necessary to sustain such earthlike conditions.
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Okay,couple of things,the bible tells us we may be “in the world but we are not of the world.” So the physical world we live in is really limited by our ability to perceive it. Even scientists have suggested the entire universe is a kind of hologram. We don’t have all the answers, we’re still working within the realm of theories.
As to the medieval pagans or the bronze age goat herders, we really need to practice some intellectual humility, drop this idea of progressivism,as if humankind is progressing and getting smarter,therefore our ancestors were a bunch of fools. There are primative tribes who have a better understanding of nature than we do today. Heck, there are animals who can predict tsunamis,earthquakes,and natural disasters far better than our best scientists.
So,long before man even thought of science,the bible was already speaking of water vapor and people being made of nothing more then specks of dusts invisible to the human eye. As to germ theory,long before we understood it, Jewish doctors were following the law,engaging in hand washing and avoiding blood products. A lot of Jewish doctors became very successful on account of the fact that they didn’t kill as many people, all because they inadvertently availed themselves of germ theory before it was even discovered.
Science,the real kind, actually requires an open mind and some intellectual humility,otherwise it just
becomes another idol. “Lean not into your own understanding…”
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Insanity,
One problem modern people have with regard to history is imaging how different the ancient world was from our own.
There was no refrigeration or air conditioning and people wiped their butts with their hands, or a stick or a sponge on a stick (if you were a Roman soldier) or some other smelly, messy method.
Consequently, the odor of rot, urine, feces and vomit and their sources was omnipresent.
The Hebrews like their equally violent, warlike brethren the Canaanites and the Philistines, were as grotesquely dirty and stinky.
We know from the Bible that it was God who taught the Hebrews how to clean themselves up for the Hebrews had no knowledge cleanliness on their own.
And God didn’t explain any bacteriology to them as we also know from the Bible. Such knowledge came much later in Christian Western Civilization with the development of modern science.
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“The Hebrews like their equally violent, warlike brethren the Canaanites and the Philistines, were as grotesquely dirty and stinky.”
Ha! Apparently Silence has never done social work or worked in healthcare. I assure you,we as people are still at heart, stinky, violent Philistines. It is the modern world that tends to insulate us from that fact, to wrap the nature of our own existence in multiple layers of deception.
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Insanity,
Modern life is luxurious for most of us.
That is not to say that poverty does not exist.
I imagine you have running water, refrigeration, air conditioning and toilet paper.
It is also probable that you drive around in your own personal chariot that would have left ancient royalty agog.
Ancient life was a pest hole experience from start to finish.
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‘Ancient life was a pest hole……………’
Silence: King Solomon would be well within his rights to have your head for saying something so foolish. But he is no doubt a better man and would bear with such ignorance. You are better than this.
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“Ancient life was a pest hole experience from start to finish.”
Tell that to the modern man with his suitcase full of pharmaceuticals, spending four hours a day in traffic, contemplating the non existence of God.
Again, I ask us not to be so arrogant as to subscribe to this belief that mankind is progressing and our ancestors were all ignorant barbarians.
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Insanity,
Like all irrational people you must change the subject when your horrible ideas are exposed for what they are.
In Christian Western Civilization most of us are free to live the lives we choose.
People endure traffic jams because they feel it is worth it.
And people take drugs because they choose to.
In the ancient world most people were only free to die.
Those that lived, experienced the brutality of widespread, relentless poverty.
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LOL! Horrible, irrational, and shameful indeed! Not unlike talking donkeys, burning bushes, or disembodied hands writing on the wall?
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Insanity,
I hear the Twilight Zone music revving itself up.
As one of the dwarves in War Craft once said:
“Time to go!”
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@ib22
Yeah, let’s not forget how ‘modern man’ redefines gender, not happy with the barbarians knowledge of male and female, and of course God is correct, there may be apologizing to Sodom and the other cities of the plain.
Then there are the zillion dollar a year atheletes who cannot string 5 words together to make a sentence.
Also, people make the mistake of equating technology with smarts. Pulleeze. Our ancestors would have cleaned our clock in simple decorum, the trades, and lest I forget, let’s recall the moronic artisans such as Michelangelo, who to this day has not an equal, but right, they were stone age dopes. Sure they were.
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I hear you, Colorstorm. For crying out loud, we’re selling body parts from aborted fetuses, gender bending our own children with surgery and drugs, trying to clone 3 way dna for 3 way marriages, and denying the existence of God, all while trying to proclaim we aren’t ignorant barbarians like our ancestors were. We’ve “progressed.” We’re “civilized”now. Needless to say, I am not overly impressed with modern man’s navel gazing over our own perceived intelligence and virtue. I kind of doubt God is impressed either, but He’s far more patient then I am. 🙂
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You know you are on the right track msb when you are on the receiving end of bizarre poison darts tossed from slingshots of pure ignorance.
Thank you for such fresh air, and it is amazing that more believers are not casting a vote of accord, but your insights count as three. 😉
And indeed the patience of God must be staggering.
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@insanity22
Purely sound as always. Well stated.
I have books written by men who are scientists who are also believers, who while believing every word of scripture, have dared to state their views without fear of being called fools, and whose intellectual acumen would embarrass us if we were honest, and while using logic, their eyes, scripture, reason, common sense, and true science, have blazed trails only to be laughed at.
The humility which you mention is evident on every page of their writings, and speaks volumes as to the points which they carry.
It escapes me how we somehow think that men and women believers of old were some how withheld from understanding the very ground that was given by God. After all, quite a few of them walked with God……….I’m guessing such topics as these came up in conversation and were affirmed. 😉
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@ColorStorm
I am not certain what you are up to, but I find it difficult to believe you actually believe the earth is flat. Still, if this is a joke, it seems out of character. Do you believe the earth is flat or not?
As a scientist and an engineer, I have learned to be skeptical. We generally don’t know as much as we think we do. I can think of personal examples. The big one is that for years I did not believe in Jesus. Since I enjoy studying history, I can think of historical examples too. The flat earth is a good one.
When some people started claiming the sun was at the center of our solar system, some Christians started protesting that was unBiblical. Wrong assumption! Turns out the Bible does not actually take a position on that subject.
The Bible is not a science text. The miracles in it are already difficult enough to accept. Can you imagine God using the Bible to explain advanced science concepts to our ancestors? The scribes already had enough trouble copying it by hand. Just adding orbital mechanics would have doubled its size. Moreover, almost no one would have read it because almost no one would have understood it.
Seriously, if God had inspired its author to say the earth stopped spinning for a day, the Book of Joshua would not have made any sense to the people who first read it. On the other hand, they could understand the significance of the sun stopping in the sky. So that is what the Bible says. That is what it had to say, for our sake.
I spent years working in military space operations. I am hardly a genius, but I know we could not put satellites in orbit around the earth if the earth was flat. I also know that the difficulty of making the leap from I can perceive to what is actually the case. I cannot directly perceive the earth as a small, spinning ball of mud circling an enormous ball of hot gases. I can only piece together the evidence and logically deduce that is what is going on. If I can do it, you can too.
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I have a comment in moderation.
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Tom, I’m not seeing the comment, only your notice to cs that yiur comment was in mod
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So do I
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Pingback: For CS’s Amusement Tonight | The Recovering Know It All
CS you should listen carefully to what Mike says, in arguing for a flat earth you will just push people on the fence towards atheism. I have lost any respect for you and your views. The level of appalling ignorance you display is breathtaking, worse than that you exalt in your ignorance.
i suggest to take some time to study a great Christian of the past like St Augustine, he had utter disdain for people like you. He saw people like you as enemies of the gospel as you discredited the Bible in the eyes of others by your faulty interpretation.
I know I am using strong words here, but anyone who argues for a flat earth in today’s world does not deserve to be taken seriously.
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Tks pete, But views such as as this should not be taken seriously?
Hello? Yet it is you who believes in the great god Nothingness! Ha! now that is funny. This short video was illuminating as to the vitriol it has received. To be cited as a fool by an atheist is yet one more compliment. But maybe it is you who can defend how water runs uphill….
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Storm,
Ignorance should always stir indignation.
It is just that one’s own ignorance seems a complete mystery to one’s self.
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The tide comes in, the tide goes out… you can’t explain that.
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Sorry for the resistance and opposition, Colorstorm. It really was a delightful video, aptly named a rabbit hole. I love rabbit holes, they are designed to make us think and to question what we think we know. That’s critical thinking in action and good for the brain. I have the whole Alice in Wonderland thing going on because of rabbit holes and the importance of being childlike in our faith and full of wonder. God is God, He doesn’t fear our questions like people do, nor does He demand we put our faith in our own understanding, in fact He warns us about that.
These days science can be like a sacred cow, it’s followers demanding more obedience and compliance than God does. God simply says, “believe in my Son and love one another,” but you challenge one little bit of so called established science, and they try to kick you out of the cool kid’s club, revoke your sanity,and generally act like real wankers.
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The method of science is predicated on challenge, IB22. What you’ve done is substituted a response of denialism, ignorance, and belief in contrary woo to facts… and then repackaged and renamed these under the dishonest synonym you call a ‘challenge’. It’s not.
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but you challenge one little bit of so called established science, and they try to kick you out of the cool kid’s club, revoke your sanity,and generally act like real wankers.
Errrum, what? Science is based on being challenged. That’s the heart of it. That is why there is that small thing called “Peer Review.” That is why hypotheses are published together with the experimentation method so others can replicate the study and verify, or falsify, the results.
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“That is why hypotheses are published together with the experimentation method so others can replicate the study and verify, or falsify, the results.”
Kind of like the way millions of people all through history have testified to the goodness of God, even sacrificed their very lives rather than agreeing to set down that precious bit of wisdom?
I’d say the transformative power of Jesus Christ has been thoroughly peer reviewed and replicated, and yet you still insist on not believing in Him.
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Don’t try and shift the subject. You were dead, dead wrong. Can’t you just admit it?
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“Dead dead wrong?” Speaking of an easily replicated study, a peer reviewed testimony to the truth,there’s always that study, an experiment we’ll all get to replicate.
Myself, I much prefer life and life abundant. 🙂
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What a great observation msb! Only in this case, the peers are mute, and rightly so.
Would to God the loud mouthed ‘experts’ take a hint that the proof of death points to that little flower that lives next year which preaches that abundant life.
And the odor is a gentle reminder that the unseen is very real, and that death is but a change of zip codes.
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Yeah, the problem IB22 is your grasp of the scientific meaning for ‘peer review’, which is based on a very high degree of specialized and knowledgeable skepticism. When you shift that definition over to what YOU want it to mean – your typical ‘peers’ equally ignorant and superstitious and gullible as yourself – an equivalent ‘peer review’ it does not make.
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American physicist William Hoover had some great fun with peer reviewed science and his consultant, Stronzo Bestiale.
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I am sooo crackin up msb. allow me to add daylight to your ingenius observation.
To quote from another source regarding a scientific paper on gas:
—Scientists are rather conservative, as discussed by the epistemologist Thomas Kuhn. Meanwhile, Hoover continues, ‘while I was traveling on a flight to Paris, next to me were two Italian women who spoke among themselves, saying continually: “Che stronzo (what an asshole)!”, “Stronzo bestiale (total asshole)”. Those phrases had stuck in my mind. So, during a CECAM meeting, I asked Ciccotti what they meant. When he explained it to me, I thought that Stronzo Bestiale would have been the perfect co-author for a refused publication. So I decided to submit my papers again, simply by changing the title and adding the name of that author. And the researches were published.’
So much for ‘peer reviewed.’
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As I’ve already pointed out, not all peer reviews – including your assertion – meet the criteria.
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And it has been pointed out to you that there are Lilliputians, duped in the land of Gullibles Travels, so yeah, the word ‘peer reviewed’ is highly overrated.
just sayin tildeb.
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Storm,
I am afraid that I see the answer to your carpenter’s level as did Isaac Newton.
But only because I’ve been educated and trained as an engineer.
That is as the tangent to a specific point on a curve.
The point on the curve, like the road being laid down in infinitesimally small compared to the curve (in this case the surface of the Earth).
At this point the math becomes simple algebra used to compute length, width and height.
Consequently, the to understanding your error is to understand the extreme small scale upon which the road builder and surveyor work in comparison to the size of the Earth.
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The Bible, of course, teaches the correct shape of the Earth. Isaiah 40:22 says God sits above “the circle of the Earth”. The Hebrew word for circle, chuwg can also mean roundabout, sphere, circuit, or something that has circular boundaries.
Also, Luke 17:34-36 depicts Christ’s Second Coming as happening while some are asleep at night and others are working at day-time activities in the field-an indication of a rotating Earth with day and night at the same time, on different sides.
In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space, the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. A literal translation of Job 26:10 is “He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end.” A spherical Earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22 – “the circle of the Earth.”
Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle (e.g., New King James Bible and New American Standard Bible). If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10. The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe.
The reality here is that nearly all medieval scholars believed the world to be spherical.
Even early Christian church leaders saw no need to distance themselves from any understanding of the Earth’s sphericity. The only identifiable flat-earthers were Lactantius (c.265-345), Cosmas Indicopleustes (c.540), Severian of Gabala (c.380), possibly Theodore of Mopsuestia (c.350-430) and possibly Diodore of Tarsus (d.394).
Auguste Compte (1798-1857) developed the philosophy of positivism, with its concept of progress, step by step, from superstition to science. This led to the idea that “religion” (in particular Catholic and Protestant Christianity) was but a step beyond superstition but definitely a step back from real science. Religion had to be swept away if mankind was to progress to truth. This approach led to the metaphor of “warfare” to describe the relationship between science and religion. Such a conflict was first articulated by William Whewell, Vice Chancellor of Cambridge University in 1837. Important developments of the warfare metaphor were by John Draper in “The history of the conflict between religion and science” (1873) and by Andrew Dickson White in his “History of the warfare of science with theology in Christendom” (1896).
All three of these men pointed at Lactantius and Cosmas as influential leaders of the Flat Earth belief even though the Church viewed them as heretics.
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You are dead, dead wrong. Hebrew word for “sphere” is “Kadur”
Now, I know you’re being wilfully ignorant here, James, because I’ve explianjed this to in the past.
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I remember this conversation John. Right around the time you tried to convince me that Jesus teaches His followers that they are required to sell everything they own, that Heaven is hotter than Hell, and that Jesus would be taken more seriously today if He preached about Tupperware if I’m not mistaken.
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You remember it, and yet here you deliberately lay down what you know is a lie.
Interesting James.
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I remeber you being wrong John, as you often are.
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Dur is ball
Kadur is sphere
Neither word is used to describe the earth. The word used means circle, a 2D line.
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So is it your belief that the Bible teaches the Earth is flat? Not sure what point you are trying to make here.
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Is the word Kadur used?
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The Hebrew word חוּג (khûg) used in Isiah 40:22 implies ball-shaped, just as Christians have believed for centuries.
The flat-earth belief, in fact, has always been extremely rare in the Church. The flat earth’s two main proponents were obscure figures named Lactantius (c. 240 – c. 320) and Cosmas Indicopleustes (6th century; the last name means “voyager to India”). However, they were hugely outweighed by tens of thousands of Christian theologians, poets, artists, scientists, and rulers who unambiguously affirmed that the earth was round.
I mentioned up thread that the church viewed these people as heretics John. So, how can you maintain that the Bible teaches something that almost no one believes?
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Ball is dur.
Chuwg (chug, khûg) is 2 dimensional circle.
Two completely different words.
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You are simply wrong John, I think that has been well established here.
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What’s been established is that you lie, wilfully.
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John
For the record. I knew a man who boasted of his knowledge ‘of the Greek’ regarding the New Testament.
However upon meeting a man from Athens, he was embarrassed to say the least that he really had not a clue as to ‘the original tongues.’
What’s the point? I doubt that you or James, or myself, are experts in ‘the Hebrew,’ and misunderstandings or misinterpretations hardly qualify as lies.
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Why haven’t you allowed my last comment to James?
Censorship…
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Will you publickly apologize john as there is no ‘last comment’ that needs released?
I so tire of all this unfounded bitchin. Maybe you sent it somewhere else, another blog, another thread?
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My apologies. I see it’s now been freed from your censorship.
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That’s fine john, but ‘NOW been freed’ implies recently, at your request, where more correctly, it HAD been freed long ago. 😉
So you didn’t like the vid eh.
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Well, if you didn’t have this censorship scheme of yours there’d be no complaints, would there?
The video? I thought it was hilarious, and the comments here priceless.
Tell me, did you post it as a joke, or do you really believe the earth is flat?
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Yeah john, the earth spinning, orbiting, and racing through the universe at incomprehensible speed and contortions is hilarious.
It’s amazing how you ignore the science that you supposedly worship when it contradicts your so called reality.
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Yes, i’m sure you’re right.
Now excuse me while I go and watch the news which is being bounced off some orbiting satellites…
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Oh John, is that all you have?
“It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in…”
Is. 40:22
“He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.”
Job 26:10
“When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth…”
Prov. 8:27
I am sure an intellectual skeptic like you, John, would assume from those verses a concept of a flat, circular, pancake-like earth simply because, in each case, the Hebrew word used is chuwg.
That is why it’s important to understand (as you clearly do not) a key word-concept that is missing in Hebrew: There was no varying word for a “sphere” – a three-dimensional circle. It is not that the Hebrews or anyone else lacked the concept of sphericity (obviously, they could conceive of it plainly when, for example, they ate pomegranates for breakfast), but that they simply did not create a second word for it.
Skeptics (it’s all old and tired so I’m sure you know where I’m going here) sometimes reply to that by citing the KJV version of Is. 22:18, “He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord’s house.” The Hebrew word there, however, is duwr. This word no more exclusively indicates sphericity than chuwg, for it is used by Isaiah elsewhere like this:
Is. 29:3 “And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.”
Obviously, John, the soldiers could not camp in the shape of a sphere around the city. This word appears to be making a statement about a circular pattern rather than giving reference to a given shape. In Ezekiel it is actually used (24:5) to refer to something being burned, probably inside a circle of wood or a heap of wood.
Surely a master wordsmith like you would find no satisfaction in the use of this word to refer to the earth and assume that it meant flat two dimensional circle as you do with chuwg when it is clear that it is not used exclusively to describe a sphere.
Actually, it is not even clear that chuwg refers exclusively to the shape we call a circle either. The word indicates boundaries being set, but nothing contextually demands a perfect circular shape. In Job 22:14, it refers to a “circuit” or route walked by God, and there’s no particular reason why this should or should not be a circle. Altogether, the word is used only 3 times in the OT, and not once does the context clearly demand a shape of any particular regularity;
Saying ball is dur and cwug is a two dimensional circle, calling me a liar, and leaving it at that may sound good, even convincing, to some John so I understand why you would say it.
But, to those of us who actually study, it is pretty rudimentary and it ignores a ton of context.
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There was no varying word for a “sphere”
The word for sphere is Kadur.
The word for ball is Dur.
Look it up.
The word used in the bible is neither Dur nor Kadur, rather chuwg (khûg), which means circle: a 2 dimensional line object.
End of story.
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This is exactly the answer I expected John, I shouldn’t have wasted my time.
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True, you shouldn’t have. Your Alternative Facts, James, won’t ever be tolerated in the actual world.
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@jz
Let’s get something straight. Because you neither believe nor understand something, citing another man a liar for your mis-interpretations will be pointed out. James is not a liar.
God created the heavens and the earth. This is the framework of WHY you think others lie, but do not make unfounded accusations, please.
At the outset of this post/vid, I clearly pointed out that great minds of all ages have disagreed, using the same information. But I must say, you are at a severe disadvantage of being taken seriously, for we at least extend courtesy to God for His own existence.
You are engaging an argument that you can never win.
And let’s stop with the ‘lies.’ It is old and tiresome. Thanks.
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Dur is ball
Kadur is sphere
Neither word is used to describe the earth.
James knows this. He knows this all too well.
So, was his comment a deliberate lie?
Yes. Yes, it was.
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Let’s back up John……….to the beginning.
The earth was without form and void.
without context as it were.
There was no sun for it! There was no moon for it! There were no stars for it!
See how much trouble you create for yourself when you leave the Creator out of the picture? So really, who lies???
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James wrote:
He knows that to be a lie.
The word for ball is Dur. The word for sphere is Kadur. These describe 3 dimensional objects.
The word used in the bible means circle, a 2 dimensional line.
Again, James knows this, so James deliberately lied. That makes him a liar.
Period.
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Seriously john, if you do not believe the Genesis account, then you will lost as fog regarding the four winds (ahem, the modern jet streams!!!) of the earth, or the four corners as well. Context is a wonderful thing, as well as this thing called ‘comparing scripture WITH scripture.’
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Who’s talking about Genesis?
James made a statement, asserting that the word chuwg meant “sphere.”
It does not.
It has never meant anything but a 2 dimensional line circle.
The word for sphere is kadur, a derivative of the word for ball, dur.
Had he simply forgotten this, James had a chance to admit his error in the comment immediately after my correction.
He did not correct himself.
He did not admit making a mistake.
That, Colourstorm, is when James becomes a liar.
He had a chance, he didn’t take it, and that means he deliberately (consciously) laid down a falsehood, a deception… a lie.
Now, to your credit, you are at least being honest and faithful to the bible. That is to be admired. It’s insane, but no one can say you’re not being consistent.
And I applaud that.
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John once told me I was no different than ISIS on paved streets and that I would happily walk into an abortion clinic and murder people in cold blood so liar, by comparison, is nice from him.
Everything he says is old and tiresome, he is not someone sensible people should take seriously at all.
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Colourstorm, I have had a comment in moderation all day.
Are you censoring?
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And I have not been home all day. Thus your worries are unfounded.
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Been out looking for the edge of the flat earth, huh? 😉
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Ha jz! the onus is on you to produce one drop of evidence that there is 8 inched squared per mile of curvature drop. Hint hint.
There is zero. Study the matter. And do not rely on google of wiki. You may be surprised what you do not find. 😉
Being someone who does not live on ‘faith,’it is strange how you believe something you cannot see. Science contradicts you!
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Storm,
Since clearly your knowledge of the Bible is extremely limited I am going to quote for you God’s understanding of what a king is and does.
Samuel 8:10 “In answer, then, to their request for a king, Samuel told the people all the Lord had said to him. 11 When you have a king to reign over you, he will claim the rights of a king. He will take away your sons from you, to drive his chariots; he will need horsemen, and outriders for his teams; 12 regiments, too, with commanders and captains to marshal them, ploughmen and reapers, armourers and wheelwrights. 13 It is your daughters that will make his perfumes, and cook for him, and bake for him. 14 All the best of your lands and vineyards and olive-yards he will take away, and entrust to his own bailiffs; 15 and he will tithe the revenues of such crop and vintage as is left you, to pay his own courtiers and his own retinue. 16 He will take away servants and handmaids of yours, all the lustiest of the young men, all the asses that work for you, to work for him instead; 17 of your herds, too, he will take tithe. You will be his slaves; 18 and when you cry out for redress against the king you have chosen for yourselves, the Lord will not listen to you; you asked for a king.”
America’s Founding Fathers having learned their Bible (unlike you) and having experienced exactly what God described a king to be…
…designed and built a government whereby the People could rule themselves.
The Founders stressed the critical need for a high level of education among the People.
Otherwise, the government of the People would devolve into the ageless impoverishing tyranny that had been mankind’s lot since the beginning of civilization.
Also, if you ever bothered to read your Bible you would find out that King Solomon was as wantonly profligate as any king, perhaps more so, since God had blessed him with the gift of wisdom.
Storm, you need to pull out your Bible for once in your life and give it a good read.
All the beliefs you have about it are screwy and have nothing to do with the actual Word of God.
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Well you got me there Silence! My scriptural knowledge, compared to God’s understanding which is unlimited, is certainly limited.
But I do appreciate the confirmation of the little morsels by God’s hand which are indeed full of His blessing and confidence.
As to my beliefs being ‘screwy,’ it’s a bit sad that you have atheists as confederates.
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Storm,
Borrowing from Jesus:
Even the Gentile knows stupid.
That makes you their confederate, not I.
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Storm,
Please read my Bible quote from 1 Samuel.
You might learn something real from Bible.
Surely, that would change your life as has happened with so many other people through the ages.
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This vid/post/commentary has been most revealing silence.
It started out with the idea that great minds disagree using the same data, now we have strange alliances being formed while God is left out of the picture.
You have become a hero to atheists for disagreeing, and I somehow have zero credibility for disagreeing with your new partners.Strange.
Yet, I brought nothing but facts, logic, science, common sense, and scripture to bear. Even stranger.
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Even a broken analogue clock is right twice a day. We’ve know the the Earth was spherical since Eratosthenes (276-194 BCE) used shadows to calculate the circumference of the Earth quite accurately. It shouldn’t be a mystery that whenever a person of religious faith allows reality tom arbitrate some belief about it,, s/he will immediately find themselves in the same camp as those who have none at all, namely, atheists.
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Storm,
Quite the contrary.
You have not brought facts, logic, science, common sense and scripture to bear.
Your comments express the exact opposite.
The remedy to ignorance is education.
God study some basic science. I recommend astronomy for beginners and pros alike.
And read your Bible.
You wouldn’t say stupid things about King Solomon if you had read your Bible diligently.
God’s story of salvation includes the understanding that we are not to idealize gross sinners like King David and his bastard son Solomon.
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On earth as it is in heaven……. SILENCE.
Does this mean anything to you? Is heaven spinning and tilting through space at speeds unimaginable? Is God experiencing a bumpy ride?
Yes? No? Why?
Logic. Common sense. Scripture. And the science of observation to draw repeatable conclusions.
Oh but wait. I know nothing of scripture or God’s demure ways. lol.
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Silence, it’s one thing to disagree with ColorStorm over the premise of his post but it’s an entirely different and not so great a thing to accuse the man of not knowing scripture or the Bible. Anyone who has done even a cursory viewing of his writing knows this to be a blatantly false characterization. ColorStorm knows his stuff and to say otherwise distracts from your argument. A little humbleness can go a long way.
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I was just thinking of CS Lewis here, Colorstorm. My parents were devout atheists so they didn’t want me reading Narnia at all. Naturally I devoured the entire series and eventually everything he ever wrote. Imagine my surprise when I finally entered the Christian world and discovered there are also people of faith really horrified by the idea of wardrobes leading to another world and talking beavers. Everything must be sober minded, serious,and scientific, least anyone call you crazy, accuse you of woo, or claim you are unintelligent. Bad news! People are going to do that anyway. In fact, faith requires, no, it demands we learn to lean not into our own understanding, and to at least have a willingness to ponder other possibilities, beyond what we think we know.. 2 Corinthians 5:7 tell us, “For we walk by faith, not by sight.” Our eyes can deceive us, our reason can deceive us, our science can betray us.
I put my foot down frequently on this issue, so call me crazy if you wish, a flat earther, a bronze age worshipper, but I know who my Father is, and I know Him not by sight or reason, but by faith. It’s quite rational, but also mysterious and magical. It’s a shame that we become grown ups and start to believe we have all the answers. Now that is crazy! Also, it makes us really dull and boring, fear based rather than faith based.
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Geez, msb, just saw this. Maybe WP has the flu! So so sorry for not noticing. But I’m guessing you understand.
Anyway, I’m glad I posted this vid, because the ensuing comments are proof that there is merit in opposing views. Some of the most well thought out men and women I have encountered have dared to disagree, and have made a case for what the masses consider foolishness.
And the fact that Degrasse and Nye have called people stupid idiots for disagreeing with them is surely an eyebrow raiser, and further proof of a stirring in the water kind of thing which agitates them. It is mind numbing to hear these guys defend something they have never even considered.
The still small voice speaks loudly to truth, and you gotta love those images of the deathly still lakes. And remember, our unlearned ancestors had the drop on us long before we ever heard of Orion. But heck, they were dunces right? Not.
But very cool that you found Jack Lewis, some rare gift there. 😉
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What a fantastic and mind blowing video ColorStorm thanks for sharing this! That visual right at the beginning of the spinning ball with he water flying out of it just speaks volumes. An amazing planet indeed, created by a loving God who took care of every single detail to make it not only habitable for people but so beautiful and enjoyable as well.
I’ve been on the Waltzer carnival ride. Fun when your kid but not so much later!
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Tks trish-
And I am confounded at how alliances are formed because people do not agree on the details of how God holds all things together.
Yeah, like we can understand the mysteries of creation in an afternoon of blogging, when for thousands of years the most brilliant of minds have disagreed.
It’s one thing to be chastised by atheists, but when believers should know better, and realize that people are not cookie cutters.
Who knows I may be correct, and it may take 50 years before someone admits: uh oh, I was wrong about this or that.
But rest assured, God knows what He is doing, and His word is sure.
(when you have time, read the comment thread and read between the lines.)
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Yeah it’s always stunning to me how people who really should know better think they have everything figured out. If there is one thing we know for sure it’s that things are always changing and that as time goes on and God reveals more to us about His creation, what we thought was true yesterday turns out not to be today. A little humbleness beats head knowledge any day.
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True enough trish. A hundred years from today, the ‘new and improved’ scientists will say Nye was an idiot, Degrasse a fool, and some other ‘new’ thing will be the golden idol of the today.
I’m pretty sure truth does not change, although it may reveal itself in different clothing; ie, the technology that exists at the moment. But don’t need no stinkin genius to tell me that my eyes see that water finds its own level. lol
God gave us senses so we can discern things naturally, without the help of PhD’s who do not even give Him the courtesy of existing. Careful to not offend one of these little ones kind of thing. There is a little gem of truth in James which tells us the wisdom of God is ‘first’ pure, then peaceable. If it was peaceable first, it would not be pure. This is helpful when we hear the cry of ‘peace peace, when there is no peace. The wisdom of God is free for the taking I believe, and its a good bet that so few of us actually ask.
We should be a little slow to chastise King Solomon.
Anyway, appreciate the vote of confidence, as your comments are always well thought out and to the point.
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I think there are plenty of people already saying that about Nye and Degrasse, lol.
I agree too that truth does not change but our capacity to understand it does. I like a lot what you say about God’s wisdom being pure before peace. Really changes the perspective on things.
King Solomon was far from perfect and strayed far from God. He was also brilliant and very much in God’s favor before doing so. Aren’t we all like that in some ways? Even King David, a man after God’s own heart fell from grace in some pretty despicable ways.
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Ha, true on all fronts.
By the way, Degrasse has said that the ‘earth’ is oblate, that bulges in the middle, and of course having no proof.
I don’t hear anybody citing him as the antichrist for his willingness to speak his peace. 😉
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Lol!
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It may be interesting only to me but at my very first university class in my chosen area of concentration, we had a presentation by three senior professors – of astrophysics, geology, and engineering – of the best arguments for a ‘flat’ earth model. They took the role very seriously with all kinds of supporting visual aids, physical models, and concluded their convincing presentation with ‘problems’ of the spherical earth hypothesis. This was a necessary lecture… to introduce students to what critical thinking really means, why we need to understand its epistemology and recognize when it is and is not being used, and begin to teach students how we approach differentiating and lending greater confidence to informed knowledge from and over beliefs/opinions we may even share that masquerade as equivalent knowledge claims.
The question and answer portion of this lecture revealed some of the typical tactics used to protect the beliefs/opinions from seriously and honestly questioning of the legitimacy of their claims although few students were able to articulate why these tactics used so adroitly by the academics were dishonest.
So it’s interesting to me that the charge of over-confidence by Tricia is aimed not at the ill-informed, knowledge-lacking flat earth hypothesis but at those who understand why the evidence for the spherical earth is in fact overwhelming and thus deserving of a much higher award in confidence. After all, if the model was wrong – and it really could be – then your cell phone wouldn’t work! And yet it does.
So what? Why does this matter?
Well, this matters because part of the burden of establishing knowledge is to meet and account for data that is problematic to some explanatory model , that may even appear contrary to it. And one of the most compelling ways to do this is use an independent means that has no bias. A cell phone has no bias. It either works or it does not. Unless and and until the flat earth hypothesis can account for why this technology based as it is on a spherical earth works on what is proposed to be a flat earth, then the model is necessarily weaker because it has a much higher likelihood of being incorrect.
Proponents of such ideas (in this case the flat earth) have all their work before them explaining and accounting for applications, therapies, and technologies that work based on a different explanatory model than the one being proposed. Continuing to believe some hypothesis that has yet to pass this independent litmus test – to account for why the questioned explanatory model is productive and useful – is the belief that is in desperate need of a reduction in confidence because it is the one that has failed to meet this burden. The flat earth hypothesis has failed in this regard…. no matter how erudite and informed its supporters may seem to be to those who don’t recognize this lack of knowledge merit nor appreciate why its absence is fatal to the merit of the hypothesis being proposed.
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-tildeb
Did you ever study the theory of 8inches squared per mile of supposed curvature?
That is, IF there is curvature, it should be able to be measured. Ha, but assumptions are not proof, and when met with the level, laser, or a hundred mile frozen lake, it has been demonstrated there is zero curvature.
This is a problem, a huge problem, for while ants can walk on a basketball, you and I cannot.
Furthermore, standing at the ocean, while watching a ship ‘disappear’ from your line of sight, is easily brought back into vision with a camera with a good lens or binoculars, thus proving that it is purely perspective, and not curvature that is the issue.
That said, many many great minds have argued either way, for thousands of years, and I do agree that ultimate truth can withstand the fiercest of scrutiny.
The vid while somewhat simplistic, reveals greater issues such as flying cows traversing the universe……
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Furthermore, standing at the ocean, while watching a ship ‘disappear’ from your line of sight, is easily brought back into vision with a camera with a good lens or binoculars, thus proving that it is purely perspective, and not curvature that is the issue.
This is absolutely true. When I, here in Brazil, point my Meade LX200 telescope horizontal to the ground I can see people in New York skyscrapers, folk walking across London Bridge, climbers cleaning the top of the Sydney Opera House, and Japanee pilgrims starting their climb at the base of the Kii Mountain Range.
I love my LX200
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John
Maybe an art class for you would be in order to learn about this thing called perspective.
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So, you agree with this guy
(SIR ZANDE- you are aware that I do not play link-pong right? I could post a thousand of my own but prefer to follow my own rules. This one here by you is refused not only because of that reason, but also because it is totally unrelated to the issue at hand. Talk about al-lah somewhere else)
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Totally unrelated?
Please explain…
The man is talking about why the earth is flat. You are talking about why the earth is flat.
He gives examples.
Do you agree with his examples?
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Hey john
Is the throne of heaven stationary? Forget flat.
Is God in control of His creation? This is the point of this vid.
My interest is not in the philosophy of people who blow themselves up.
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But you share his philosophy. He, too, believes the earth is flat. I wanted to know if you agree with his example.
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Ever heard the saying that even a blind squirrel finds an occasional acorn?
As far as I know, the ground under my feet is flat, and I suppose the ground under your feet is flat.
Where this curved place is, that’s up to you to prove.
Horizon? Horizontal? Sea level? Wait, I think that’s wrong. It’s sea curvature right?
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Okay, whatever, as you have taken to censoring and editing and altering and deleting people’s comments I see no reason to continue with this farce.
Yes, the earth is flat. You’re a genius, CS. If you try to tell a child that you should be jailed for intellectual and psychological abuse under the U.S.’s 1974 Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act (CAPTA).
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Good one zande.
Meanwhile back in reality, people are applauded for teaching their children there is no God, that people are of no more value than mosquitoes, and that it is perfectly natural for Sarah to have 2, 3, or 4 mommies, and that mommy number 2 changed her mind and married her horse….with the full blessing of the liberal elites.
And it is I who am dazed and confused? Too funny.
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Censoring comments again I see, Colourstorm.
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John-
Please do not say this again. I’m asking you politely. My computer is not a wristwatch, and I am not its butler.
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Did you or did you not delete and edit a comment?
I believe that’s called censorship, CS.
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Sorry john, but I am under no obligation to cater to your lawlessness.
Lawlessness, as in refusing to abide by my edict that I do not play link pong; therefore by default, you have deleted yourself.
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The reason (I think) that water doesn’t shoots into the air from centrifugal force is probably because of gravity? Anyway, nice post!
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