Why is this even a story? Certain men in high places have proudly said ‘God d_mn America,’ and that language was applauded. Still is.
Watch out, if you say ‘God bless you’ to somebody who sneezes, you may be stoned. A high school Florida student recently went ballistic, by saying to his classmates: ‘God bless America, keep us safe,’ after his scripted announcements over the intercom. Oh no, bring out the tar and feathers.
Yep, instead of invoking ‘thank you, have a nice day,’ or ‘Roger, over and out,’ he uttered what he thought was a harmless off the cuff remark: God bless America.
And it was harmless………….until two, count them two atheists complained NOT to the principal, but to the AHA American Humanist Association, and got the attention they sought: a letter fired off to the school by the Appignani Humanist Legal Center:
“It is inappropriate and unlawful for a public school to start the school day with an official statement over the intercom stating, ‘God Bless America,’ for such a statement affirms God-belief, validates a theistic worldview and is invidious toward atheists and other nonbelievers.”
Whoa. Official statement? Boy that kid has power. Imagine if he used that same power by saying ‘God bless you’ to a teacher that sneezed. A veritable fortress is he.
Why oh why people get rattled over one of the main ingredients in America is beyond me. Yea, yea, church and state will be the cry. Ok then, what church is represented when a kid says ‘God bless America,’ correct, none. It is simply a gesture of good will, no different from somebody telling you to ‘have a nice day,’ or wishing another ‘shalom.’
An attorney for the kid says the AHA has no case, and wonders why they have any issue against an individuals patriotism. Once more, the pleas of two ‘offended’ people will be used as a battle cry for the ‘don’t you dare hurt my feelings’ bunch. Please.
When I say ‘In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth,’ what church am I representing? Correct none. C’mon people, America gives you the right to practice your atheism, maybe God has blessed America; at least you have your head and your freedom to choose nothing.
Truly the unbelievers should applaud such sentiments, as this is really no story if it were not for the selfish. And yes, for context: God d_mn America. That should make the complainers quietly go away. But I can’t end there, so simply: God bless America.
The Lions Den 
Treaty of Tripoli
And to repeat: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion
So, let’s hear your argument why any god should be in schools?
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Have you ever visited the Harrisburg Capitol building and read the inscriptions? The entire basis of law and rights in the US is derived from God alone.
Perhaps you do not know much about the uniqueness of the United States of America. The kid has every right to say ‘God bless America.’
Nice wiki quote there too.
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It’s a quote from the Treaty of Tripoli. Have you never heard of it?
Can you give me an example of a law of the US being derived from God?
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I do apologize for copying this, but it speaks to your question, and addresses my concern regarding laws and rights. So it serves dual purposes. The last paragraph says it all.
This conversation sprang from dialog about the Federal Court’s ruling on same sex marriage in Alabama. Chris is from CNN, and Roy Moore is a Supreme court judge of AL.
MOORE: I believe that’s a matter of law because our rights contained in the Bill of Rights do not come from the Constitution, they come from God. It’s clearly stated –
CUOMO: Our laws do not come from God, your honor, and you know that. They come from man.
MOORE: Let me ask you one question. Let me ask you one question, Chris. Is the Declaration of Independence law?
CUOMO: You would call it organic law as a basis for future laws off of it?
MOORE: I would call it the organic law because the United States code calls it organic law. It is organic law because the law of this country calls it the organic law of the country means where our rights come from. And if they come from there, men can’t take it away.
CUOMO: Our rights do not come from God. That’s your faith. That’s my faith, but not our country. Our laws come from the collective agreement and compromise.
MOORE: It’s not a matter of faith, sir. It’s a matter of organic law, which states, ‘We hold these truths to be held equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.’ And the only role of government is stated in the next sentence is to secure those rights for us. The government starts taking those rights away from us, then it’s not securing and it is defiling the whole purpose of government.
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I’m sorry Colorstorm, but that isn’t an example of a law derived from your god.
Now, if you’re thinking of rights, which I believe you are, you have to go back to Cyrus the Great. Have you ever heard of the Cyrus Cylinder? It’s the core and first formalised articulation of all rights present on earth, including being the inspiration for Bill of Rights.
From the United Nations:
So, would you like to try again and give me an actual example of a law derived from your god?
Thank you
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Well we can always go with the Ten original, first written in stone, hard to beat, but I thought Mr. Moore’s response answered you perfectly.
And it is God, not god.
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Thou shalt not have any gods other than me?
Mmmm, I don’t recall any US law saying that. In fact, the separation clause specifically says all gods are fine, just none will be recognised by the government. Seems the US breaks the big ten right from the get go!
Now, I’m interested, are you trying to say no culture had rules against, say, stealing, before the Pentateuch was written? That’s quite a claim, Colorstorm. can you back it up?
But seriously, let’s be specific. Can you, yes or no, give me an actual hard example of a law derived from your god. And please, don’t say the big ten . The ten commandments originated with a pre-Pharoah tribe of Egypt called the Kemet, whose concept of truth, law and justice was consolidated into a theory called ‘Ma’at’. The ten commandments of the Bible are derived from the 42 principles of Ma’at. HYou will, however find them all also expressed in the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi (1780 BCE), as well as in the Mahabharata (8th Century BCE).
So, over to you… Please give me an actual hard example of a law derived from your god.
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You judge God’s word through your version of ‘history.’ I interpret history as it agrees with God’s word, as He is much more trustworthy with what actually happened in His own creation.
Your tales are clever but once more you set yourself higher than heaven by the mocking of God’s word etched in stone by the finger of God at Sinai.
As if His law was a borrowed version of scrap from heathen cultures. Good try again, but I will not dignify your charge with a further answer.
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Don’t believe me?
Google is your friend. Look it up for yourself………….
But while you do that, could you please give me an actual example of a law that is derived from your god.
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Let’s see,
Since every good thing (including law) comes from the Father of lights, (book of James) this question is pretty lame.
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John,
The trap you are trying to lay out is that no matter what the Christian says, you’ll just reply, “Oh well, the ancient religion of Roll Your Own Doobie from the ancient land of Snot Grass came up with that one too, and they did it a whole six months before any Jew ever thought about it.”
The point is that law and justice are self-evident and can be derived by any person or group of persons.
But the Christian West is the only civilization in human history that put it all together so that a hyper-civilization would result.
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Could you name a law, SOM, that is wholly derived from your god?
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John,
You do realize that an atheist asking for a law derived by God is like a lion asking me to feed him a parsnip (no offense, ColorStorm).
The atheist trap is based on inducing his opponent to defend something absurd.
But suppose you were a lion who was sick of eating zoo leftovers and you asked me to let you go out and hunt for some real, live meat.
Then we could have a conversation.
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“But suppose you were a lion who was sick of eating zoo leftovers and you asked me to let you go out and hunt for some real, live meat.
Then we could have a conversation.”
SOM speaks the same kind of gibberish as Colorstorm!
EDITOR Note: Yep, just for you arch. Don’t bother with your nonsense posts, (you know what they are) insulting other guests, trying to derail posts with your endless vain repetitions of mockery, Bronze and superstitious blah, blah, blah. Your landfill material is not getting free PR. As to your ‘scrutiny,’ I have no desire to scrutinize your depraved innuendos. The scriptures stand alone and need no defense)
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Who’s setting a trap? Colorstorm made quite a clear statement above, and I’m simply asking him for an example.
I’d honestly like to see a law which he believes is derived directly from his god.
Now, i asked you the same thing. Can you furnish me with an example?
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Why do I suspect the summation of CS’s response to your erudite comments will be along the lines made famous in Blazing Saddles: “Facts? We ain’t got no facts. We don’t need no facts. I don’t have to show you any stinkin’ facts!” And this will be punctuated by claims about you daring to question ‘God’, that you aren’t some ‘god’, that his ‘god’ is enough of a divine Federales to avoid having to show his facts!
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You guys can have the U.S. government for all I care, as I agree that it was not in fact derived from the God of the Bible, but to a much larger degree derived from, and then later expounded upon greatly, a much different god indeed, the god of Freemasonic alchemy, the god Molech, the “seething energies of Lucifer”…
Go take a stroll around D.C. sometime. Examine the “monuments” (temples). Note the symbolism, the themes, the repeated narrative everywhere. It points not at all to the God who gave Moses the Ten Commandments, but to a “god” who makes promises to men that they can become little gods themselves…
If you are truly serious about wanting to see all religion removed from having any presence or influence on the political functions of the nation, then I find it quite bizarre that none of you seem to even notice these modern institutional versions of the ancient pagan mystery religions which are being shoved in our collective faces on a daily basis. Perhaps it is merely because unlike Christians, who will openly share and explain their beliefs, these folks instead worship in secret, and hide their Satanic beliefs behind layers of obfuscating symbolism and allegory…
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I have had commenters throw Treaty of Tripoli at me more than once.
Why do Liberals and Secularists so delight in that treaty? All bringing it up does is prove you are so biased you are unable to consider the historical context.
Because our diplomats wanted to reassure some Muslim pirates, the treaty stoutly affirms the United States is not a Christian nation. However, the treaty makes it absolutely clear we are dealing with a Muslim nation. It was fair. They demanded we respect their religion. Because we are soooooo tolerant, we did not demand they respect our religion. Even then it was hard not to drag religion into foreign policy.
Meanwhile, we built up a navy. We defeated those pirates in what I believe was our nation’s first foreign military action after the ratification of the Constitution.
And things have not changed that much. Think about the shit our troops put up with in certain countries. Because we are led by men, we get imperfect leadership. Does that really require an explanation?
The founding document of the United States is the Declaration of Independence. That says our rights come from God, and that is why our Constitution says so little about God. If you are crazy enough to believe government gives you your rights, I can only hope God has pity on you. You are not going to like what you want.
Consider Romans 8:28.
28 We know that in all things God works for good with those who love him, those whom he has called according to his purpose.
Divine providence actually does exist. At least the founders thought it did. They were not perfect, but they were better than the leaders we have now.
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Poor Tom Paine must be doing pirouettes in his grave.
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Then you do believe there is life after death.
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Hi Tom, hope you’re doing well.
Two points
The founding document of the United States is the Declaration of Independence. That says our rights come from God
“Natures god” is not the god of the Pentateuch. It’s Spinoza’s god: an aloof, indifferent pantheistic notion, and a fairly logical guess for the superstitiously minded given the era.
And, the Treaty of Tripoli is cited simply because it says it in plain language: “Not a Christian nation.” The majority of your founders had, in fact, long dismissed Christianity, some like Franklin even despising its dogma, and were non-descript Deists who drew their inspiration of nation-building from the goals of the Enlightenment. One, however, can only speculate how their opinions of even that fabulously loose deistic god hypothesis would have been altered should they have lived long enough to have had enjoyed an afternoon tea with Charles Darwin, or peruse Dmitri Mendeleev’s first published periodic table, or discuss plate tectonics with Alfred Wegener, ponder the nature of stars with the utterly brilliant Cecilia Payne, or had the opportunity to sit beside Edwin Hubble as he described those receding smudges of light he spied through his telescope.
Now, no one’s doubting that the majority of Americans were Christian, but to try and say the US is a “Christian nation” (meaning its institutions are based on Christianity) is ludicrous. It does raise the question though: what would a Christian nation actually look like? What are unique Christian principles, and do any of these trump the goals of the Enlightenment? What would a Christian nation’s economic and education policy look like? What would a Christian nation’s science policy look like? What would a Christian nation’s welfare and social policies look like? Would this nation have a standing army, and if so, would it be expeditionary in nature? What would the powers of the religious police be? Would these officers of the Law police perceived moral behaviour? Would capital punishment be enforced, and if so, by what means? Stoning? Would there be freedom of speech and a free media in a Christian nation?
One thing we could say with some confidence is a government whose institutions were based on a single religion would demand all employees and political appointments reflect that religion; so a religious test would be brutally enforced. Clerics would, therefore, sit on the Supreme Court, which raises the question: what would the nations Law look like in this Christian nation? Would Moses Law of the Pentateuch stand? Many, if not most evangelicals believe it does, like Gary North, who insists his Dominionist Christian nation would be a paradise where children were stoned to death in public squares. Jesus certainly said Moses Law stood, and would remain in place until heaven and earth passed away. Other Christians, of course, reject Jesus’s command and follow Paul (the Paulanites) and use his words to say Moses Law was rendered obsolete.
Who would decide?
EDITORS NOTE: In the spirit of that young one little Tim, whose words were again precious after Ebenezer Scrooge faced his own darkness: ‘God bless us, each and every one.’ (out of the mouth of babes)
And in the words of the high school student (to which this post speaks) who opened his mouth in public: ‘God bless America.’
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Spinoza? You have never heard of John Locke and natural rights?
🙄
I have post I call “DEISM AND THE FOUNDING FATHERS.” You can find a link on my home page.
Stop and think. You want us to believe majority of Americans were Christian, and you also want us to believe these Americans elected non-descript Deists who drew their inspiration of nation-building from the goals of the Enlightenment. In addition to John Locke, I suppose you also have never heard of John Wesley.
I don’t pretend to know exactly what each of the Found Fathers believed. However, we do know the Founders were educated in the Bible. We also know they respected the Bible.
By the time of the founding, Americans — because of how they understood the Bible — had begun to place a high value on freedom of conscience, and that understanding is reflected in our laws, not some absurd caricature of Christian beliefs.
Consider. Our nation includes a fair number Christians pacifists. How do you imagine Quakers, Mennonites, and other such groups would impose their religious beliefs on anyone. Nonetheless, nobody in their right mind says Quakers and Mennonites don’t believe in the Bible. And other Christians BECAUSE THEY ARE CHRISTIANS, leave Christian pacifists, people who eschew violence, in peace.
Because we were a nation of Christians and still retain a Christian heritage, our laws respect the individual’s right to freedom of conscience. Because our laws respect the individual’s right to freedom of conscience, we do not have a theocracy. In fact, we have something quite unique. We have a government based upon God-given rights.
Yet we remain imperfect human beings. We do not always choose wisely. Our forebears neglected to teach their children about the Bible. Therefore, too few of us are serious Christians — people who study the Bible and contemplate the character of Nature’s God.
Instead, too many of us busy ourselves rewriting history and trying to make the world conform to our own beliefs.
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EDITORS NOTE: Another diatribe of humanist propaganda. It is completely dismissed without apology and fit for the dung-hill, especially for the references to Christ as being no more true or real than Minerva or Jupiter. Begone.
From my own comment policy: Say what you will, but please do not cry ‘free speech’ when your pics, vids, and links of insolence toward the name of Christ are trashed. In addition, assassination of the word of God will not get free PR at my expense. Profane and vain babblings? they will be shunned.
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Sigh
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Triple sighs,
but
still a city on a hill.
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I confess, I don’t personally understand the “God Bless America” line in itself… “God bless you”? sure. or “God bless the little children”? absolutely. But I’ve searched back and forth throughout the scriptures without being able to find anything to suggest that God is going about “blessing” entire politically-defined nation-states for any reason whatsoever. I would hope we’d be praying that God would bless everyone in the world, not just those who consider themselves “Mer’cans”…
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Truth-
I was thinking of the song ‘God bless America,’ to answer you a bit, then Mother Hen posted,
check out her comment, spot on
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Yeah…. I actually never really liked that song, but couldn’t quite explain why. Now that I’m older, and able to research into things like the fact that it was introduced into the American consciousness as both a campaign theme song for Freemason presidential candidate FDR, and a propagandist tool for entering WWII, it makes a lot more sense to me why it always felt off to me…
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Yeah truth, but a person could find dark sayings in ‘Humpty Dumpty,’ too, for those kings men were of a nefarious sort.
20 years passed since the song was written then revised, but the patriotism and all around good will can’t be denied.
C’mon, just say its a good American song and all will be good tonight ;’)
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It’s not that I think it’s “dark”, per se, just a pretty clear cut case of co-opting Biblical Truth for the purpose of Godless, earthly political agendas.
You’re right, I can’t deny the patriotism. It’s the patriotism that bothers me… 😉
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(sorry, not trying to be the detractor here… I do believe our country needs God, as all do, I’m just not a “wave the flag” kinda guy…)
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I understand what you are saying. Unlike David Barton and Glen Beck, I comprehend that God did NOT make a covenant with America as He did with Israel. But – He is definitely interested. Romans 1 states that His Law is written in every man’s heart. It is our free will to do with it as we choose. And it is a sad, but true fact, that in the very near future, ALL nations (it doesn’t say “except America”) are going to turn against Israel. Woe unto us. . .
Jeremiah 18:7-8
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
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America has already turned against Israel, the true Israel that is, those who have been grafted into the Root of Jesse, and so has the political entity which calls itself Israel.
I do pray that the Jewish people will turn and recognize the Messiah, but there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that the best means of encouraging them towards repentance is to bolster their military, especially when it is in fact being used in genocidal and imperialistic ways, and not simply in “self defense”.
We have to wake up as the Body of Christ and be willing to admit that certain deceptive forces, not at all of God, have co-opted and twisted certain passages in scripture in order to convince Christians to embrace an agenda that Jesus Himself does not…
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Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
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God bless America, land that I love, stand beside her and guide her through the night with a light from above, from the hillside, to the prairies, to the oceans white with foam, God Bless America, my home sweet home.I Thank God for His love and provision…
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You beat me to it.
Well done
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It came naturally…lol! Thank you!
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Why make a fuss? Because it’s illegal. Why is it illegal? Because of the Establishment clause in the Constitution. Why don’t theists in greater numbers understand and appreciate how freedom of religion can only come about by the state and all of its organs remaining steadfastly neutral about supporting, promoting, and privileging religion? It seems to be a no-brainer to me not to use public institutions to promote or advertise or utilize a personal religious belief and to stop whining and pretending to be victimized when held to account for breaching this clause; instead, more theists should be outspoken opponents of those ‘brethren’ who stupidly and selfishly cross this line.
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Really tildeb?
You should be chastising the 2 miscreants; a student says ‘God bless America,’ and you want to make a federal case out of it.
Oh the pettiness of the advanced in thought.
The kids whose ears are allegedly offended have every right to hold their ears, stand on their head, hold their breath, say ‘no thank you’ when someone says ‘God bless you’ when they sneeze. They can act like clowns if they want.
No body is holding a gun at them, they have equal freedom. That also means they have no right to impede another’s freedom either.
There is no religion being promoted here. Case closed.
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I’m confused – the AHA would never have blinked had the kid said it to a buddy in the lunch room – I get the impression you aren’t telling the entire story – he said it over the PA system, didn’t he, on a mission of some kind for the school? THAT would make it AHA business, but certainly not a simple sneeze. You’re being deliberately deceptive for the benefit of your theist agenda. Shades of Reverend Mason Locke Weems! Birds of a feather —
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Seriously arch, I’m not telling the whole story?
It appears you missed in the opening of the post where he clearly stated: ‘God bless America,’ AFTER his scripted announcements over the intercom. It’s kind of obvious.
Why arch you have to paint me as full of flaws or deception is beyond me.
Go ahead and argue the premise, but the comparisons to others, well, others can decide.
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Sheesh, in the olden days we used to have to work much harder to offend people. Kids these days have it easy, just say something nice and somebody somewhere is sure to take offense.
Of course if you say something vulgar and obscene you’ll probably win a lot of popularity or perhaps even an emmy.
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Strangely enough, I have to agree with you here, Insanity. I think you Americans have gone completely overboard with PC. Seriously, who cares if the kid said it. Yes, it broke the law, a law that is in place for a very specific reason, but making a fuss about it takes it all to a place where it shouldn’t really go. What should have happened is a Muslim kid should have been permitted to say Allah bless America the next day, and the day after, a Pastafarian child could give thanks to FSM. As you’re not a Christian nation, then all gods should be praised, right? That is, of course, if people actually want to praise a god.
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I still haven’t figured out why affirming “theistic belief” in an official manner is such a no-no.
The alternative is the atheist dogma that everything just happened all by itself, which is obviously stupid.
Maybe Christians simply need to accept that stupid is the only thing that merits official affirmation, and then go off and suck an egg.
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I still haven’t figured out why affirming “theistic belief” in an official manner is such a no-no.
Because it’s illegal.
The alternative is the atheist dogma that everything just happened all by itself, which is obviously stupid.
No, the alternative is for religious folk to exercise of the slight modicum of self-control we can call ‘polite restraint’ from using the public domain to promote private religious beliefs and then whine about being victimized.
Your admitted lack of understanding is not a good basis on which to then launch contrary and (again, admitted) ignorant arguments, SOM. Fortunately, this deplorable state under which you suffer can be rectified… not by shielding yourself by piety as you are wont to do but it means you might have to learn something. Probably too much to ask, I know, but hope springs eternal….
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You are no doubt jumping the gun Tildeb, as I’m sure SoM was being sarcastic as to his no-no observation
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Yes, no doubt this tried and true method of his he’s been espousing for years will suddenly become his way of merely being sarcastic. SOM hasn’t the imagination to make such a change in tack.
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Well tildeb, I agree with Som, there are many ways to single out the obvious.
To complain about ‘God bless America’ anywhere in the States, is pretty much pathetic.
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Color,
Oh would it be that I was being sarcastic.
I mean, Barack Obama got elected twice and he believes the global warming hoax is much more important than the Jihad.
How stupid is that?
And please, keep your sarcasm to yourself. I’m a Christian and I just don’t want to hear it!
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tildeb,
Saying, “God bless you,” over the “official” intercom isn’t being rude or offensive.
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Just curious. Anyone have a problem if a kid says Allah bless America over the PA system?
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It appears your geography is a little off with your one nation under alla-h
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… because the truth of religious claims is based geography, apparently…
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No this is about hypocritic opinions.
Did you miss the part in the post about the comments by they in high places who say ‘God d_mn America?’
People applauded this comment; now you have a harmless kid wishing goodwill upon his classmates by saying ‘God bless America,’ and people are up in arms.
I’m sorry you cannot see the liberal level that lost the bubble.
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It appears your geography is a little off with your one nation under alla-h
So, there are no Muslims in America? Sounds like you’re opposed to a student saying Allah bless America. Is this correct?
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The post is about a kid who said ‘God bless America.’ You know, apple, pie, Chevrolet kind of thing.
Not interested in your scenerio, as it will be a fruitless and endless discussion.
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“The post is about a kid who said ‘God bless America.’ You know, apple, pie, Chevrolet kind of thing.”
Yes, I understand, and you are defending the kid’s right to say God bless America, the right to express his religious beliefs. Good for you.
But what happens when a kid says Allah bless America? Will you defend his right to say this as you are defending the right to say God bless America?
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If someone said it yielding a machete, that’s a horse of a different color now isn’t it.
Do you think the United States is unique and a nation like no other? Why?
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Let’s put this in the right place in the thread.
“If someone said it yielding a machete, that’s a horse of a different color now isn’t it.”
What? Now who’s throwing in diversions?
Look. It’s a simple question about rights. If a kid say Allah bless America over the PA, will you defend his right to say this as you are defending the right to say God bless America?
A yes or no will do.
I think that I can tell from your evasions and digressions that the answer is NO.
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Ha. the two are not even in the same universe and you know it. ‘God bless America’ is all inclusive, as the blessing is toward ALL.
Sure the mus-lim could say ‘allah bless America,’ but he will not, and he cannot, because mus-limhood is exclusive,
Do you have dual or triple WP accounts??
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“Sure the mus-lim could say ‘allah bless America,’ but he will not, and he cannot, because mus-limhood is exclusive.”
I think I misread this the first time. You are saying that you will allow any student to invoke any god over the PA system? Saw the “would not” and “cannot” and missed the rest. If I misread this, then I apologize for the misread.
You are dead wrong about what a Muslim student could and would say. No reason why a Muslim student can’t say Allah bless America, so I’m glad to see that you will allow this.
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Gee, I wonder who is more sincere when invoking ‘God bless America?’
The so called ‘religion of peace’ is a fraud. Most people know it, but so few will dare say it.
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“Gee, I wonder who is more sincere when invoking ‘God bless America?’”
Are you saying that you can evaluate a kid’s sincerity? What difference does this make. Didn’t you describe the Florida kid’s sign off as a “harmless off the cuff remark?” Now, that doesn’t sound very sincere to me.
Point is, a Muslim kid could easily say Allah bless America. It could happen. I also suspect that an American soldier who is a Muslim would find it easy to say the same thing. I’ll bet that soldier is sincere.
Personally, I don’t think it’s a big deal if one kid says God bless America one time over a PA system. But I think it’s problematic if it gets to be a habit.
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That’s the point; ‘God bless America’ is sincere in its simpleness, which doesn’t draw attention to itself.
This would have been a non story if the two misfits would just have kept their own religion of nothingness to themselves.
I don’t see why you try to make an issue out of something good.
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“That’s the point; ‘God bless America’ is sincere in its simpleness, which doesn’t draw attention to itself.”
And Allah bless America can’t be sincere, too?
If it doesn’t draw attention to itself, what’s the point of saying it? You are suggesting here that it really doesn’t mean very much when it’s said. It’s just a unnoticed throw away line at the end of announcements.
“This would have been a non story if the two misfits would just have kept their own religion of nothingness to themselves.”
Did the kid keep his religion to himself? Not really.
“I don’t see why you try to make an issue out of something good.”
Well, whether it’s “good” or not depends on your point of view. As I said, one incident…no big deal. Personally, I wouldn’t pick a fight over it. However, make it a habit…it is a big deal.
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Forget the mu-slim will you. The post is about two selfish individuals living in America.
Maybe someone else would like to help you.
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The atheist is claims to be conscious and sensitive toward the cultural values of all nations.
Well, the entire Western Hemisphere was settled by Christians.
So the atheist only show culture insensitivity when he tries to compare an American saying, “God bless you,” over the school intercom and an Arab doing the same thing only,
“Allahu Akbar”
Within the Christian blessing, “God bless you,” are equal rights, justice for all.
Within the Jihadist’s exclamation, “Allahu Akbar” is Sharia which is theocratic fascism.
Consequently, you have demonstrated that liberty and justice for all is no different than theocratic fascism, in the heart and mind of the atheist.
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“Well, the entire Western Hemisphere was settled by Christians.”
Actually, it was settled by pagans from Asia.
“So the atheist only show culture insensitivity when he tries to compare an American saying, “God bless you,” over the school intercom and an Arab doing the same thing only, “Allahu Akbar”
First, I did not compare “God bless America” to “Allah Akbar.” I compared “God bless America” to “Allah bless America.” So, stop putting words in my mouth and put down the straw man before someone gets hurt.
Second, my position would be that no student should be invoking the name of any god over the PA system, and that’s why I said that if “God bless America” became a habit, that would be a problem. I don’t want either God or Allah or the FSM on the PA system.
It was CS who was willing to let everyone mention their particular god on the PA system, and while I think this is a bad idea, I do give him credit for at least being consistent.
“Consequently, you have demonstrated that liberty and justice for all is no different than theocratic fascism, in the heart and mind of the atheist.”
Sigh. This sort of nonsense is why I don’t believe I want to get into a further discussion with you. It’s obvious from my conversations with you over at IB’s blog that you’re not entirely rational.
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David,
Hunter-gatherer cultures where replaced by more advanced agrarian and industrial cultures throughout the history of the world.
If you go to any Native American reservation in North America, the official language is English. The Native American kids study in American public schools, they wear American style clothing and they love rap and hip hop American music and black ghetto or gangsta manners and thinking.
Nevertheless, Christianity became the coin of the realm throughout the Western Hemisphere.
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David,
Additionally, your “Allah bless America,” demonstrates cultural ignorance and insensitivity.
Muslims don’t say “Allah bless Russia, or England or France.”
Islam is Arabic and all Muslims say, “Allahu Akbar.”
Atheists can’t use their hallucinated alternate realities as valid arguments against real reality.
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It seems you are taking undue liberties with your interpretation of my remark ‘their particular god…’
God bless America does not translate into ALL gods being acceptable.
This is the United States we are talking about I think. I agreed with Som that ‘God bless America’ is all inclusive, where all others were exclusive’
When US people say ‘God bless America,’ they do so having no interest in another’s head; where the opposite…………
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“Hunter-gatherer cultures where replaced by more advanced agrarian and industrial cultures throughout the history of the world.”
Ah, I see. You’re talking about what happened AFTER Europeans conquered the agrarian and urban cultures founded by pagans from Asian. I did not realize that you were referring to post-conquest America.
“Muslims don’t say “Allah bless Russia, or England or France.”
A Muslim never asks Allah to bless his or her nation? Never?
If “Allah Akbar” is used as a means of asking for a blessing for his or her nation, then the effect is the same as “Allah bless America.” Nothing personal, but I wish we could ask an actual Muslim about this.
Just so that I understand, is it your position that Yahweh or Jesus could be part of a PA announcement, and that’s ok, but no other gods are allowed to be a part of such an announcement? Don’t what to misinterpret, so I’m asking for clarification.
“Atheists can’t use their hallucinated alternate realities as valid arguments against real reality.”
Yes, well, based on the available data, I’m not so sure that you’re the man to go to when I’m looking for real reality.
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David,
The displacement of hunter-gatherers happened all over the world not just in the Americas.
Leftist author Alvin Toffler became famous for his work, “The Third Wave,” back in the 70’s which describes how technological advance has swept over global society in three waves.
It kind of backfired for the Chinese when they were conquered by the Mongols.
And all of Europe was terrorized by the marauding Vikings.
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David,
“Allahu Akbar,” means, “God is great.”
That is a totally different statement then the humane, warm desire that a brother or sister receive infinite blessing.
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“God bless America does not translate into ALL gods being acceptable.”
Hmm, you seem to be backpedaling just a little or maybe I just misread things again. Well, either way, constitutionally speaking, I think that it’s going to have to be no gods or all gods, regardless of how you feel about other gods. Take your pick; all or nothing.
“This is the United States we are talking about I think. I agreed with Som that ‘God bless America’ is all inclusive, where all others were exclusive’”
It’s not “all inclusive.” Yahweh and Jesus are not the gods of all American. Personally, I do not feel included, regardless of your opinion to the contrary. You can say I’m included, that’s up to me, not you, to decide.
“When US people say ‘God bless America,’ they do so having no interest in another’s head; where the opposite…………”
I’m not sure what you mean by this, and I’m not sure that it matters whether or not people have an interest in another’s head. Intent is like sincerity; neither seems relevant to me.
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The displacement of hunter-gatherers happened all over the world not just in the Americas.”
“Displacement” is a nice euphemism. Maybe the conquest of the natives was ultimately a positive thing, but it was not a “displacement.” It was a conquest with a touch of genocide. So, let’s call it what is was.
In addition, many of the native cultures at the time the Europeans arrived were not hunter-gather cultures. So, it would be more accurate to say that the urban, agrarian and hunter-gather cultures were “displaced” by the European Christian culture.
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David,
530 Spaniards laid waste to an Aztec empire of 30,000,000.
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David,
More advanced cultures tend to displace more primitive cultures. That’s just the way it is.
It is therefore an error in reason to blame Christians for what is, has always been and always will be.
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Colorstorm, I hate to say it, but how can you possibly skirt the logic being leveled at you??
If “freedom of religion” means being able to say something over a public school intercom which in any way references a religious belief system, then how are you basically arguing that the only religious belief system that should be given this privilege is Christianity?
I’m afraid these guys have quite effectively put their fingers on the underlying problem of this “America is a Christian nation” mode of thinking. It isn’t. It wasn’t. You’re defending something the Bible never calls you to defend, and in the process, completely conflating the true essence of what matters in discussing such things with people who do not know God….
Jesus didn’t die and rise again for apple pie and Chevy’s bro….
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Truth
So you do not see ‘America the beautiful?’ and the Star Spangled Banner, with the Declaration, as being distinct unlike any nation? Patriotism and loyalty offends you, or am I missing something.?
You have an issue with God bless America? Really?
I’m not talking about the gospel; you need to separate the two. I am simply talking about God as Creator, in which any sane person agrees.
(Read above the interview with Judge Moore and Cuomo; the judge cleaned his clock)
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Eh… I wouldn’t say patriotism and loyalty “offend” me, per se, well…. I dunno. I don’t really jive anymore with the concept of “separating the two”. If you come to a place of understanding that the Kingdom of Heaven is a true reality, and not just some nice-sounding religious concept, then how do you turn around and continue regarding the world through old eyes…?
“Patriotism”, I’m afraid, is more often than not more a tool of the PtB than anything else, used to manipulate regular people into things like war and elitism and empire building. Whatever you want to believe the U.S. was, or was imagined to become, in it’s earliest days, I don’t think it can be disputed that what it did indeed eventually become was nothing short of a global military and economic empire. Songs like “star spangled banner” and such are pieces of nationalistic propaganda, and I don’t think many people would even disagree with that, even if they like them.
Think about it this way…. Take two different High Schools. The kids over at High School A are given their mascot, their school colors, their fight songs and Alma Mater, etc., and then the kids over at High School B are handed all their own versions of the same things. Would it not be considered the most heinous tragedy if the teachers at High School A convinced the students to go across town and start killing the students from High School B, because they’re “our rivals!”, “GO, Bobcats, GO!”…?
Well sadly, this is really how I view “patriotism” now, as really nothing more than people pledging allegiance to arbitrary lines on the map and cultural cues, to the degree that they would actually pick up a gun and fly across the world to kill people they personally know nothing about, simply because someone in a position of authority told them it was their patriotic duty to do so. It’s really that stupid and pointless, because if you take the Word of God seriously, it says that we are to LOVE our neighbor, FORGIVE those who sin against us, BLESS and do not curse, right??? How do you do that when driving around some foreign country in your MRAP with a machine gun pointed at everyone?
I’m not saying there aren’t some very nice ideas articulated in things like the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, but neither of them come close to what God already gave us in scripture, and in the end, they are really only ideas anyway if the way in which the country has actually manifested itself over the past two centuries doesn’t even match up with the sentiments in those beloved documents….
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the,
Also of supreme note is that, “God bless America,” does not endorse religion.
The concept of God as Creator is a matter of reason and therefore is considered by traditional Americans as a self-evident truth, like all men are created equal and are endowed with certain inalienable rights.
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S trong
o bservations filled with
M ettle
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ColorStorm,
Oh !WoW!.
I think I feel something on the top of my neck, swelling real big.
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<
blockquote>”The concept of God as Creator is a matter of reason and therefore is considered by traditional Americans as a self-evident truth”
~~ SOM ~~
EDITORS NOTE Once more we see the borrowed cut and pasted and oft repeated depraved comment that ultimately mocks the word of God and Christ who said: ‘Suffer the little children to come unto me.’ The perpetual insolence of the infidel knows no bounds.’ As the scripture clearly presents: ‘Whose mouths must be STOPPED.’
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Arch,
All children are born brutally ignorant and end up as angry, psychotic miscreants without the love and education of adults.
It is so obvious in the Old Testament stories, that the difference between evil and good, poverty and riches, endless slaughter and peace, wisdom and folly, is a good education.
And here for about the 6th or 10th time, our Founding Fathers, from the Northwest Ordinance of 1787, Article III:
“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.”
By the way, who is Ernestine Rose?
Never heard of her, although I do remember an Ernestine from that show called, “The Laugh-in.”
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Yep! Mention anything pro-God, and it’s an open invitation to get trounced upon. Weird.
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Only in the public domain, Scarlett, and must be so for you to enjoy religious freedom.
I know; how weird is it that still you don’t get that association, eh?
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Tildeb
Define “public domain” Seems the definition many would like for public domain is any where besides in a locked and sealed building where nobody could possibly hear. Seems even the presence of Christian Blogs is worthy of assaults and attacks. So…what constitutes public domain?
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Note to CS. If you wish to ban me from commenting here, that’s cool, that’s your choice. However, if I am allowed to comment here, I’d appreciate it if you’d not hang up my comments in moderation. It inhibits the conversation, and I can’t tell what others can and cannot see. I’m not as rude as some of the other commenters, so I don’t understand the need to moderate. Again, it’s your blog, and you can do as you like, but this really does interfere with the exchange of ideas.
EDITORS NOTE:
I have yet to ban anyone. Do you think that much of yourself that people wait on bended knee for your next comment? Are you aware that some people work, have obligations, appointments, etc? Did the thought ever cross your mind there are reasons why some must be moderated? And are you also aware that many of my comments never see the light of day at other places?
So it appears you and others have zero beef (by the way, if you read what I get on a daily basis, you would think differently as to why I havn’t banned any body)
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Ok, I’m glad you haven’t banned anyone. And yes, I understand why some must be moderated, but again, I don’t believe that I’ve been particularly rude or offensive in my comments on your blog.
Regardless, this doesn’t address the effect of comment moderation on the exchange of ideas. No, I don’t think that people wait on bended knee for my next comment, so no, I don’t think that much of myself. However, when I’m engaged in a relatively civil conversation with another person, I assume that this person has some interest in my reply. This is what is impeded by your choice to moderate my comments.
I’ve explained the problems created by moderation, and it has little to do with my opinion of myself. If you choose to not understand what I’m saying, so be it.
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I can understand your concern, but there are ancillary issues which will do no good to explain.
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“I can understand your concern, but there are ancillary issues which will do no good to explain.”
Ok, I see that things are what they are.
Please do not misunderstand me. I not trying to complain, criticize or “beef” here. This is your blog, it’s your property, and you are obviously and certainly free to use whatever policies you see fit to apply and do as you wish. I understand that you have ancillary issues, and that’s fine.
Thank you for not banning me. Do be a mensch, and please post this last comment just so that those with whom I’ve been actively conversing with in this thread will understand that I’m not ignoring their comments. I wouldn’t want to be seen as rude.
Happy trails, partner.
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Few realize today, but the doctrine of separation of church and state arose from a desire to prohibit government from designating a state religion and mandating participation in it, sometimes on penalty of death…not from a desire to eliminate any reference to God from public discourse. The hope was that religious persecution would not be pursued in the New World.
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Yes Anna, so true, and I’ll add that God as Creator was assumed by most. Apparently the founders thought so.
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“The hope was that religious persecution would not be pursued in the New World.” – And yet the religious persecute those of us who choose not to believe in fairy tales, every day of the week.
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