There was an observation made recently in another post regarding ‘love’ that the apostle Paul spoke of, contrasted against the love of a parent toward a child, and in this comparison, Paul’s brand of love came up as it were, ahem, miserably short. It is interesting for two reasons.
One, because this idea is narrow and selfish, secondly, because a high level of hypocrisy must be utilized to even suggest such a thing.
In a conversation with an unbeliever, and using 1 Corinthians 13 as a springboard, a friend asked this fair question:
“Do you truly know more than Paul did about this one subject we’re speaking of?”
And this immediate response was given:
‘Paul made it clear that he felt that sex was something people should avoid if possible. He seems to never have known the love of a woman, and never sat by the bedside of his children, as I have, and just watched them sleep, totally immersed in the beauty of what they were, what they had been, and the anticipation of what they might be, so yes, I do believe, whether I can state it elegantly or not, that I know far more about love than Paul ever dreamt of.’
Most would read this and say it is one description of love, but I suggest at the end of the day, when examined with the love that Paul wrote of and experienced, it is simply selfish and narrow. The love of a woman and children, ok I get that. The innocence of the young being totally under ones charge, like a hen and chicks, yes I get it.
Would it be fair to assume because Paul had no wife, nor a brood of young ones to watch over, that he was unqualified to speak on love? If you read the life and times of Paul, this is indeed a foolish question.
The love of a woman, and care for the young, again who would argue, but is not this the common way of life? Nobody is trying to short-circuit or under appreciate natural affection, but in Paul’s own words, there is always a more excellent way.
I would venture a guess and say not only did Paul know of love, but he knew of an exceedingly great love. Did he not care for the young in their spiritual progression? Did he not care for Timothy as His own son in the faith? Did he not spend sleepless nights brooding over the new-born in the faith? Was not his love for his kinsmen so great that he said he wished he could be accursed for them?
Paul was an evangelist, pastor, teacher, apostle, and prophet. As a harbinger of the gospel, he loved the souls of men, and was spent day and night for Jew and Gentile alike; he loved the hearts of men, and he wanted all to know of the immeasurable love of God as revealed in the word of God, through the person of the Lord Christ.
Through time, teaching, experience, and revelation Paul writes:
‘For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, and things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.’
Uh, the sleeping baby may not (God forbid) live until next week, what then becomes of the parents love? If there is no God, then it would stand to reason the love is separated. Not so with the love of God, for it is eternal, just as is His nature. Is it any wonder that Paul wanted to share this joy with as many as He could?
The love of a woman? Good of course, but she may divorce you. You may tell her ‘goodbye.’ The love of children? Good, but they may grow to despise you. Will you love the woman as much when she wants no part of you? You see, there was this man named Adam…
The love Paul spoke of was greater because of its source as well as its object. The love Paul knew was outside of time, it is pure, and circumstances could not alter it, for in Christ, love is as secure as the throne of God.
When Paul stood before King Agrippa, he recounted: ‘I THOUGHT with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth,’ as Paul had plans to hale in prison all the ‘traitors,’ but heaven had other plans as he was arrested by the Lord on High, and now he was called to share the INHERITANCE of the Lord he once despised.
He would learn of love in many dimensions, previously unknown to himself, as he was very familiar with the letter, being blameless as a matter of fact, but he knew nothing of the spirit of the law, until his blind eyes were opened.
Paul said this, not only because it was true, but because he loved this truth:
‘If there be any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels of mercies, fulfil ye my joy, that ye be like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.’
‘The same love, one accord, one mind.’ Sounds like music. And is the apostles charge to men diminished in the least because he had no wife, or was it heightened because of a more nobler truth? Honesty will supply the correct answer.
‘Husbands love your wives, as Christ loved the church, and gave himself for it.’
Would you give your life for your spouse? For your child? You probably would. But would you give your life for your neighbor who has caused you nothing but harm and evil? Would you give your life for your sworn enemy who has done nothing but lie, steal, malign, accuse, and take your wife? Ah, now the picture is more clear. Now take another look at the thought which suggested this post:
‘I do believe, whether I can state it elegantly or not, that I know far more about love than Paul ever dreamt of.’
So why do I say this is a tad selfish and hypocritical? Because a person makes this assertion without knowing the love of which Paul speaks, without believing the love in which Paul speaks, and finally, he writes off Paul’s testimony as a fable. Me? I’m going with the love of God as revealed through scripture.
A person says with a straight face that Paul knew so little of love. Ouch, ugh, and a bundle of sighs.
‘Charity suffers long. Charity is kind. It does not envy. It is not proud. Charity does not behave unseemly. Charity does not seek charity. It is not provoked easily. Charity does not rejoice in evil. It does however rejoice in the truth. Charity bears all things. Believes all things. Hopes all things. Charity endures all things. Charity never fails. Faith, hope and charity abides, but the greatest of these is charity.’
In this description given by Paul through the Spirit of God, we see that love is unconditional, and it does not come with strings or asterisks. A person who says that Paul knew nothing of love suffers from spiritual myopia, and I say this with the utmost restraint. And oh, for what it’s worth, Paul had a LOVE of the truth unlike any other; would to God I was so equipped.
The Lions Den 
Reblogged this on Talmidimblogging.
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I love this! The love Paul speaks about is so much deeper than anything we could ever have with another human being. I love being a mother and a wife more than anything else, but I myself have days when I think about Paul’s words and long for just a day to be like that, unbridled in the glory of God and all his holiness. We all have our roles and loves in the kingdom of God, but the love we have between us and our creator knows no depth. Thank you for this today, a great post and a spiritually fulfilling one. What a great read for those of searching and hungry for God to fill us. Thank you for feeding my insatiable appetite for the word today!
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Yes, we are not taking anything from the love of people toward each other; that would be foolish.
But the love of God as shown in Christ is well, not common to say the least, and because of this, we are able to show love toward each other, that is also not common 😉
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The love Paul speaks about is so much deeper than anything we could ever have with another human being.
Unrequited love is always presented by the poets as the ultimate… because, I think, it can never undergo the testing necessary to see if can ever fit into reality and make it part of it (and life-alteringly meaningful) the way a love for another real person can. And it seems evident to me reading CS and many commenters that love of this Christian god through Jesus is the ultimate unrequited love… because I think we fool ourselves into building an impossibly high pedestal for it’s place in our lives where no reality can possibly touch it or even compete. Hence, no facts about such claims about the divinity of the critter ever matter in the slightest: the love is self-created, self-imposed, and indistinguishable (intentionally) from the imaginary.
This kind of love reminds me very strongly of those who suffer from celebrity obsession where they build an entire fictional world around their ‘real’ feelings (that must have come from somewhere, of course… that ‘somewhere’ meaning the celebrity him/herself) and the astounding relationship they so desire to have with the celebrity.
It’s entirely imaginary but does have very real consequences and causal effects on that person even if self-created out of delusion).
Of course, from the celebrity’s point of view, s/he calls such fandom ‘stalking’. I wonder – if this Christian god were actually real- what it would be like to be so stalked by billions! No wonder he hides so well!
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@Tildeb
Did you happen to read the post? The experiences by Paul were DEMONSTRATED, verified, and recorded, and not as you allege that:
‘the love is self-created, self-imposed, and indistinguishable (intentionally) from the imaginary.’
What did Paul create? What did he self impose? And what was imaginary? Perhaps to you, these are all figments of the mind, but to a person who has experienced the love of God as shown through Christ, once more, your attempt to discredit someones faith will fall woefully short.
Is what follows the success of a celebrity? Would you trade your easy chair for this life?
(From the post: ‘Paul the apostle’s (ahem) mental problem’)
Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
(Apparently, Paul loved truth more than himself)
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Praise God for that truth because we have extant those epistles he wrote by the power of the Holy Spirit where we see God’s great grace, Christ’s great love and our great need of a Savior. God bless you:)
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It’s Sunday. We are at peace. Is it possible that you can honor that? We’re talking about love. LOVE. No more, no less. No need to make it something that it is not. I find these comments to be so disingenuous. You know we as humans are so backwards. If we loved each other the way Christ loved people, this world would be a gorgeously magnificent place. Just take the post for what it is-LOVE. That’s it. LOVE. Nothing else.
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“Just take the post for what it is-LOVE. That’s it. LOVE. Nothing else.” – Actually, Mz Presser, that’s not true, it’s a shot on Colorstorm’s part at me and comments I have made earlier.
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I’m thinking arch that a public statement mocking the apostle Paul and the love of God is worthy of a response….
It would be safe to assume that people who have seen your comments would agree that my post was a judicious handling.
The better question is: what think ye of the love of God?
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If you had ever met the Lord Jesus Christ, the reality of Who He is, and experienced His glorious grace then you would understand. Until then, you are merely a sinful observer who will never understand the love and grace of God given to us through His Son Jesus Christ.
19 …to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. 20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever, Amen.
I pray that Jesus Christ will meet you and save you. May God bless you:)
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“Ouch, ugh, and a bundle of sighs.” – Have you ever considered taking a professional writing course? Or ten?
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Then again, God has a knack for making a feast out of scraps.
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I so often think that the collective “we” sadly look at those who have gone long before us all through the 21st century lens of current circumstance—-and that love of which Paul speaks of is indeed beyond much of what the majority of us can never begin to comprehend—the depth and level to which that Love of the God transcends is something so many of us spend a life time seeking –those such as Paul, who had honed the search through the aid of the Spirit, speaks to a Love that the majority has yet to find or experience—-I certainly believe that Paul knew / knows so much more than I—I who has been the wife and mother and felt that deep love of a spouse and children—but it is to the agape love of the Spirit which far surpasses anything I have known–
a great post and observation—thank you
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I can easily add an amen to your summation.
Well done cookie
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CS – another excellent post!
We struggle to comprehend the perfect love of God since we are so imperfect. We can only look at Jesus, his time on earth and his death and be in awe of this demonstration of the Father’s love. I think Paul’s life clearly demonstrates he knows a great deal about love, what else could explain his constant and difficult travel, teaching, prayers, persecution, imprisonment, ship-wrecks, beatings, loneliness all because he passionately loved God and the gospel.
This, as you state so well, is the heart of the matter: “The love Paul spoke of was greater because of its source as well as its object. The love Paul knew was outside of time, it is pure, and circumstances could not alter it, for in Christ, love is as secure as the throne of God.”
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I’m with ya betts,
There is no other explanation for his about face: ‘the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge.’
And the lower Paul went, the greater he saw this love I believe.
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Paul would have had to be married at some point, because he was a Pharisee, and marriage was one of the requirements. Most Bible scholars agree that he was a widower, and chose not to remarry, even though according to the Law, he was allowed to.
It reminds me of my own father, who lived as a widower for over two decades. He adored my mother, and devoted the rest of his life to studying the Bible and supporting the local crisis pregnancy center.
Paul knew grief and sorrow that many Americans could never comprehend. (being stoned and left for dead) He had to live with the image of Stephen and the part he played in that. And the “charity” Paul wrote of through the power of the Holy Spirit – is so selfless, and so humble – that it expects absolutely nothing for itself. Not even the self complacency we Christians luxuriate in when we do “good.” This “charity” has no expectations attached to it whatsoever. I know all too many children of God, who will all, on occasion pipe the same tune – “I don’t deserve that.” or “He/she doesn’t deserve that.” or conversely “You deserve to be happy.” This is not charity. Charity believes it deserves nothing.
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“This is not charity. Charity believes it deserves nothing.” – CS, you have accused me of “darkness” – what could possibly be darker than that statement by one of your own *EDITORS NOTE…..(speaking re. sage)
SAGE CAN ADDRESS THIS IF HE WISHES, but two things. First, there is a complete misunderstanding of what was said, and that is understandable, for God’s word cuts like a sword, and that is a good thing;
secondly, a few accusatory words were dropped off so all may see how the comment stayed, but the ‘profane babblings did not.’
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Yea sage, you hit what I emphasized too. The text reads above: ‘charity does not seek charity.’
I may disagree as to the marital status of Paul though. Many good people have not concluded whether he was married before, or if wife died, but it does appear when he said ‘I could wish men were like I am,’ paraphrasing, that he was then unmarried.
Either way, scripture is pretty much quiet, and takes nothing from his ministry, but yes, he surely did unfold the love of God.
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Really good points, ColorStorm. Paul had an incredible and profound understanding of love, one that continues to fascinate me, even to this day. I am forever discovering truths he revealed and thinking, now how did he know that??
I’m not sure why exactly Paul evokes so much fuss, but he has some incredible wisdom hidden within his words. I suspect some of those truths may be uncomfortable for some people to face, so they get mad at Paul. Love is actually a complex thing and you have to really understand some things about human nature. Paul did.
I do know that the love we feel for babies is pretty darn intense, but that’s nothing, that’s love in it’s infancy. That’s just a tiny hint of what Godly love is like. 😉
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Tkx for mentioning the babies ib; as who in their right mind would take away the love a woman has for her newborn, the travail that has been removed by giving birth, the joy! yes, I was there too; not dismissing that in the least.
As you say, THAT, as wonderful as it is, is a mere shadow of God’s love, this unfathomable gift.
To say though that Paul had no clue of love is kinda, well, ah, er,……………..
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The love Paul knew, experienced and shared was expressed by Jesus Christ as He was dying on the cross.
Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.” And they divided His garments and cast lots. Luke 23:34
That sublime love was the same love given to Saul when Jesus Christ met him on the road to Damascus and transformed him from a blaspheming persecutor of the church to the champion for the gospel who never tired of sharing the love of Christ given to us through the gospel of salvation no matter the obstacles, hardships or difficulties that he met.
Much of his time was spent in prison because of the gospel, and yet his loving care for the believers was never quenched because he only sought to instruct and encourage them from his imprisonment. Nor did he refrain from sharing the gospel while bound, but shared it with all so they too could know the love of Christ Jesus our God and Savior that surpasses understanding.
I love Paul, and all those who risk their lives for the sake of the gospel because they love my glorious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and desire to see all bow the knee to Christ and know His glorious love. Praise God for the faithful servants of Christ who spread His gospel and His love abroad. This is genuine godly love desiring reconciliation between the sinner and God for the eternal blessedness of the sinner and God’s glory. God bless you:)
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Well said.
Don’t you pity the people who say Paul had brain damage, that he hallucinated, that his life and times of hardships were nothing unusual………
Oh the wickedness of man; and people say there is no devil!
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The people who refuse to receive the written testimony of Paul are those who love their sin and will believe any lie. Oh, wait, I used to be such a person! Praise God for His deliverance accomplished in my life through Jesus Christ His glorious Son. Let’s pray God will do the same for other sinners. God bless you:)
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Why do you spew such bile? You state as if true that The people who refuse to receive the written testimony of Paul are those who love their sin and will believe any lie. It is you doing the lying here with the full support of CS… as if lying for Jesus is somehow and magically exempt from the commandment you say you live by. I don’t believe your lies, which creates a bit of a pickle for you, doesn’t it? I think you and many evangelical Christians worship the false idol of Paul and not the teachings of Jesus.
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Did you read the post? Did you see the part about Paul and THE LOVE OF CHRIST? Does Paul’s love of the Lord Jesus Christ offend you?
Have you no shame tildeb? Are you not embarrassed to try to find fault in that which you despise?
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I – and every other non believer – have been slandered and vilified as part of a group of people who lie and who love to sin according to Eliza for that non belief. That is the bile I speak of because it’s blatant bigotry… directed against those who do not believe what Eliza’s gaping credulity and deep gullibility allow her to believe done over and over by Eliza wrapped in a glamored piety that leaves you fawning in appreciation.
So, yes, I find fault in you and fault in Eliza for spreading such lies willingly and gladly and in tandem. That you feel no shame for this pandering of bigotry under the banner of spreading God’s love is as much an indictment against your character as it is Eliza’s. Wrapping such bile in piety and then going along with it is a demonstration of Hitchens subtitle in action: how religion poisons everything.
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You must have missed the part where Eliza incriminated herself, as do all believers, for you see, we ALL had our manner of life such as you, as there is no difference. If you have never owned your sinnership, then this will never make sense to you, and if you have, then you would bow the knee in thanks to God, and have no cause to complain.
The message of the cross is offensive, just as the good book describes. Strange how two people can see the same thing, one thinks it a lie, and the other receives it as truth. Paul himself agreed at the stoning of Stephen………..then………….he became the object of stoning for the truth’s sake. Paul himself said through the spirit of God that every man is a liar before God. Conviction is a very good thing.
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I guess I hit a sensitive nerve, poor thing! It must be wanting to pray for you, I guess. The fact that you verbally attack believers and hatefully slander them proves you are a sinner deserving of hell.
You continue to respond in this egregious manner, although no one has attacked you, showing that you love to do this. It is like a fine sport to you. You love your sin! No one is making you comment on this blog, you choose to do so; and yet you continue to come back and say all manner of evil against believers, the Bible, Jesus Christ, and God the Father.
These vile writings arise from your sinful nature which is at enmity with God. It can’t do anything else. You are in a very precarious position. Which is worse to be driven by your sin or deceived and misled by Satan, they are both true.
Your sin nature is empathetic to Satan’s wicked works of slandering believers. You are doing his bidding because you are a sinner. Jesus Christ can deliver you from your hopeless plight and give you eternal life if you will repent of your sin and believe in Him.
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to death.” Revelation 12:9-11
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Reblogged this on plantingpotatoes and commented:
I would like to share this good read with all my friends and hope you are as blessed as I am for reading it!
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Tkx Taters-
all the best to ya
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Dear tildeb, Yes religion does poison everything, but faith in Jesus Christ makes you gloriously free. Jesus Christ will transform you from a sinner to a saint if you will repent of your sin and put your faith in Him.
Your slander proves your sin and that you are under the control of Satan. I think you especially dislike what I share because I hold you no malice or even anger, but I desire to see the work of God done in your life through His Son Jesus Christ. I pray for your salvation and will continue to do so.
What makes a grown man/woman, I have no idea, go to a believer’s blog and attack their faith in Christ over and over again? What makes that individual, with vile slander, attack those of like faith who respond to the believer’s blog to encourage him and others? It takes a singularly twisted and evil heart to do such a thing.
We are doing you no harm, and yet you desire to do immeasurable harm to believers by attacking their faith to destroy their belief in the One Who loves them beyond measure. This is the unconscionable work of a mad man(woman?) driven by a sinful hatred of God and those saved by Him who love Him. Paul was just like you before Jesus Christ met him and transformed Him through belief in the truth.
You are a sinner who needs to repent and put your faith in Jesus Christ. I pray He, Jesus Christ the living God and ruler over all, to Whom all must give an account, even you, will extend His mercy to you. May God bless you with His salvation:)
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Dear tildeb,
Eliza is coming from a position of total sincerity and concern about you as a person. What she is saying is completely truthful in accordance with her values and worldview, which are biblical (and which I share).
She truly believes, as do I, that if something isn’t done to right the terrible situation you are in
as a person, you will end up facing God’s justice, having missed out on His mercy.
You must surely see that people who sincerely believe that hell is real will do everything in their power to warn others of this. How loving and truthful would we be if we neglected to tell people of a trap that was laid open before them? As CH Spurgeon put it, “If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our dead bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for.”
I make no judgement upon you as a person (I don’t know you, and I note that your Gravatar profile is private) but will simply say this. No matter how good and sincere you may be as a person, your goodness still falls short of the perfect, unattainable standard demanded by a holy God. I don’t mean to single you out here, as even believers fall short of God’s standard. We all fall short, that’s why Christ was needed to bridge the gap:
“for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
(Romans 3:23)
I won’t preach to you any more but just wanted to say that Eliza is bravely putting herself and her faith on the line to try to reach you.
She’s doing this because she cares about you and doesn’t want to see you suffer eternally.
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How loving and truthful would we be if we neglected to tell people that the Bible they follow is more fable than fact, written by mostly-anonymous, superstitious, scientifically-ignorant men, and they are wasting their limited lives worshipping a figment of those men’s collective imaginations?
EDITORS NOTE: It is true that unbelievers regard the scriptures as fables, but to they who have tasted the good word of God,
they are:
-words of life
-words of truth
-words of hope
-words of faith
-words of love
-words of grace
-words of knowledge
-words of wisdom
-words of virtue
-words of blessing
-words of power
-words of goodness
-words of eternal significance
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Dear Archaeopteryx1,
I know it requires a leap of trust to come to the realization that the Bible is reliable.
I wanted to politely answer your charge that the Bible is not factual or scientifically accurate, as after due consideration I feel your characterization of it is not true. The Bible is not a scientific manual, but it is scientifically accurate, even from its earliest pages. Following are some examples, beginning with statements from the pages of Job, probably the oldest book in the Bible and written at least 3,500 years ago. The late scientist Henry Morris said:
“These references are modern in perspective, with never a hint of the mythical exaggerations and errors characteristic of other ancient writings … perhaps of even greater significance is the fact that in a 4000-year-old book filled with numerous references to natural phenomena, there are no scientific mistakes or fallacies” (The Remarkable Record of Job).
Job says the earth is hung upon nothing (Job 26:7). This is obvious to our modern generation, as we have seen the actual pictures of the earth hanging in space, but to previous generations it was not obvious and there were many commonly-held myths about the earth riding on the back of Atlas or a turtle or elephant, etc.
Job says the air has weight (“the weight for the winds,” Job 28:25). It was not until the 17th century that Galileo discovered that atmosphere has weight, and the modern science of aerodynamics is based on this scientific fact. Further, the weight of air is important in the function of the earth’s weather. “The study of air flows and their relation to the weight of the air has been developed into the science of aerodynamics, eventually becoming the basis of all modern aerospace developments. … The ‘weight of the winds’ controls the worldwide air mass movements that transport the waters evaporated from the oceans inland over the continents” (Morris, The Remarkable Record of Job).
Job describes the amazing balance of the atmosphere and hydrosphere (Job 28:24-25). “We now know that the global weights of air and water must be in critical relationship to each other, and to the earth as a whole, to maintain life on earth. … Planet earth is uniquely designed for life, and its atmosphere and hydrosphere are the most important components of that design. If the weights of either air or water were much different than they are, life as we know it could not survive” (Morris).
Job describes the amazing process of cloud formation and rain making.
First, he describes how that water can be transported in the air when water weighs more than air (Job 36:27-28). “Water is converted by solar energy into the vapor state. Since water vapor is lighter than air, the winds can first elevate, then transport the water from the oceans to the lands where it is needed. There, under the right conditions, the vapor can condense around dust particles, salt particles, or other nuclei of condensation. When this happens, clouds are formed. Water vapor is invisible, whereas clouds are aggregations of liquid water droplets” (Morris).
Job also describes how the clouds can stay aloft, how they can be balanced in the sky (Job 37:16) and how water can be bound up in a cloud and not rent (Job 26:8). The answer is in Job 36:27, “For he maketh small the drops of water….” “The water droplets are indeed very small, and their weight is sustained by the drag force of the uprushing winds, as the air is pushed skyward due to temperature decrease with elevation” (Morris).
Next, Job describes how the clouds are finally rent so that rain comes forth (“by watering he wearieth the thick cloud,” Job 37:11). “That is, the water droplets coalesce to form larger and larger drops, which finally become so large that their weight is greater than the drag forces of the uprushing atmospheric turbulence, causing them to fall to the ground as rain or snow” (Morris).
Finally, Job describes the role that lightning plays in the creation of rain (“he made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the thunder,” Job 28:26; “a way for the lightning of thunder; to cause it to rain on the earth,” Job 38:25-26). “These violent electrical currents, in some complex energy exchange not yet fully understood, cause the small water droplets to bind together with others to form larger drops. Finally, this remarkable series of events delivers the rain to the thirsty ground” (Morris).
Job describes the rotation of the earth that produces the night and day sequences (Job 38:12-14). “Job suggests not only that the earth was suspended in space but also that it rotates about its north-projecting axis. Though figurative language, this reflects a true physical process. God is pictured as taking hold of the two ends of the earth’s axis and turning it as if it were a clay cylinder receiving an impression from a seal. The seal toward which the earth is turned, however, is not a metallic pattern. Rather, it is the ‘dayspring,’ evidently the sun fixed in its place. The welcome light of the morning dispels the formlessness of the earth’s surface when shrouded in darkness and unveils the beauties of the earth’s structure and verdure” (Morris).
Job describes the springs of the sea (Job 38:16). Man had no way to know about the fresh-water springs on the ocean floor by firsthand observation until recent times. Modern science has discovered that there are thousands of underwater springs that add millions of metric tons of water into the oceans each year.
Job understands that light has a way and that darkness has a place (Job 38:19). “That is, light is not to be located in a certain place or situation. Neither does it simply appear, or disappear, instantaneously. Light is traveling! It dwells in a ‘way,’ always on the way to someplace else. Though usually traveling in waves, sometimes it seems to move as a stream of particles, but it is always moving. When light stops, there is darkness. Thus, darkness is static, staying in place; but light is dynamic, dwelling in a way” (Morris).
The Bible describes the parting of light (Job 38:24). It was not until the 17th century that it was discovered that light passing through a prism is separated into seven colors. Further, “This may refer not only to the visible light spectrum (red to violet) but also to all the physical systems developed around the basic entity of light” (Henry Morris).
The Bible says that the light creates wind (Job 38:24), but it is only in recent times that modern weather science has discovered that wind is created as the sun heats up the surface of the earth, causing the hot air to rise and cooler air to fall, creating weather systems.
Job describes the amazing hydrological cycle (evaporation, atmospheric circulation, condensation, precipitation, run-off) (Job 38:25-30). The process of evaporation and condensation was not discovered until the 17th century and not well understood until the 20th.
The Bible says plants and animals reproduce after their kind (Genesis 1). This is in perfect harmony with everything that can be observed and tested by modern science. There is great variety within kinds, all sorts of different roses and trees and frogs and dogs, but there is no reproduction between kinds, between roses and trees or frogs and dogs.
The Bible says the heavens cannot be measured and the stars are without number (Genesis 22:17; Jeremiah 31:37). Before the invention of the telescope, man could see only a few hundred stars at the most with the naked eye. Yet today we know that the stars are innumerable and that space is seemingly infinite. There are 300 billion stars in our Milky Way galaxy alone. In 1999, observations by NASA astronomers, using the Hubble Space Telescope, suggested that there are 125 billion galaxies in the universe. The most up-to-date star count was announced in July 2003 as 70 sextillion observable stars (70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000). This was the conclusion of the world’s largest galaxy study, the Two-Degree Field Galaxy Redshift Survey, which is considered 10 times more accurate than previous ones. The team of scientists did not physically count the stars. Instead they used some of the world’s most powerful telescopes to count all of the galaxies in one region of the universe and then to estimate how many stars each galaxy contained by measuring its brightness. They then extrapolated these figures out to the whole universe visible through telescopes. This massive figure, of course, probably covers only a tiny percentage of the actual stars.
The Bible says the life is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11). This was not understood until very recent times. Even in the 19th century, doctors were using “blood letting” as a healing method. George Washington, America’s first president, probably died because of this bogus practice. Modern medicine has learned what the Bible has taught all along, that the life of the flesh is in the blood.
The Bible describes the circuit of the winds (Ecclesiastes 1:6), but this was not discovered until modern times. “As the land in the equator heats up, it causes the hot air to rise. In the upper atmosphere, the air flows away from the equator. Cooler air will move along to replace it. This produces six major wind belts around the world” (Y.T. Wee, The Soul-Winner’s Handy Guide).
The Bible says the earth is a circle (Isaiah 40:22). In past centuries many have believed that the earth is flat, but the Scriptures have always been scientifically accurate in this matter.
The Bible says there are paths in the sea (Isaiah 43:16). Since the 19th century the ocean currents or paths have been charted and ships travel these paths just as trucks travel on roads. Writing in the mid-1800s, Matthew Fontaine Maury, Superintendent of the U.S. Navy’s Depot of Charts and Instruments in Washington, D.C., observed, “There is a river in the ocean: in the severest droughts it never fails, and in the mightiest floods it never overflows; its banks and its bottom are of cold water, while its current is of warm; the Gulf of Mexico is its fountain, and its mouth is in the Arctic Seas. It is the Gulf Stream” (Maury, The Physical Geography of the Sea, 6th ed., 1856, p. 25).
The Bible says the stars differ in glory (1 Corinthians 15:41). “J. Bayer, in 1603, devised a method or system to indicate their brightness or magnitude. No astronomer today will deny this fact. Stars are now known to differ in size, color, light emitted, density, and heat. Our sun, which is a star, is over 1,000,000 times the size of our earth, yet there are some stars at least a million times as large as our sun, and some smaller than the planet Mercury” (World’s Bible Handbook).
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@Naomi
Clearly, you put a great deal of time and effort into your comment, and I feel I should answer in kind, but knowing that Colorstorm censors my comments, if he allows them through at all, I hesitate to waste a great deal of my time responding to your well-thought out comment, only to have mine sit in the limbo of “Moderation” to which CS consigns most of mine because he doesn’t want any of you learning that coins have two sides.
EDITORS NOTE: Naomi, you received a lengthly response, which I suggest you invite arch if you are inclined, to visit your place, as it will be an endless and fruitless discussion here. ‘Russian propaganda’ was insinuated as to the truth of scripture, therefore per the ‘vain babblings,’ this commenter would be happy to promote the endless unbelief of scripture, which I have no desire to defend here.
The love of God through Paul as written in this post cannot be contradicted, so the next best thing are mindless diversions.
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Oh, I understand religious zealotry. And I understand how one arrives at doing and saying terrible things by justifying them through this religious filter. ISIS decapitates people from their heads for exactly the same reasons that Eliza uses to slander me… to honour her god and ‘save’ me from my ‘evil’ ways. It is the same way of thinking that empowers inquisitions, holocausts, totalitarian states: just following orders, you see. The correct orders. The right orders. The holy orders.
Eliza slanders me. She calls me evil. She calls me a liar. She calls me names based solely on not believing in the god she believes in, not following the orders she demands that I follow to be ‘good’, to be ‘saved’. She does this vile business under the guise of piety, of caring for others, which is itself a lie; she cares about exercising piety – of following the right orders – and thinks lying about the character of others she knows nothing is right and proper and caring because it’s pious and has absolutely no regard at all if the accusations are, in fact, true… that I do lie, that I am evil, that I try to deceive others in the name of Satan.
Eliza doesn;t care about what’s true; she cares only about imposing her beliefs about her Dear Leader on others and will say and seems quite willing do anything to follow them no matter how vile. This is not how a caring person behaves, the way a healthy and well-adjusted and tolerant and compassionate person behaves; this is how a bigoted, scurrilous, religious zealot behaves and she finds a very warm and welcoming home here at ColorStorm’s blog. That should be cause for concern for readers to consider when evaluating claims made here by the religious: is the intent to promote what’s true or promote what is believed to be true? Look at the cost to real people in real life whose characters are maligned intentionally if what is believed to be true is left unchecked and not properly criticized.
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@Tildeb-
THIS post was about the pure LOVE OF GOD AS DEMONSTRATED IN CHRIST, and proven through Paul, and somehow, someway, you have denegraded all which is good, by mentioning Isis? Really?
If I were Eliza, I would not dignify your comment with a response.
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I was responding to Naomi’s excuse for Eliza’s intentional maligning of my character as ‘good intentions’. I pointed out why this is a problem.
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“I understand how one arrives at doing and saying terrible things by justifying them through this religious filter…It is the same way of thinking that empowers inquisitions, holocausts, totalitarian states: just following orders…”
While I agree with you that Eliza seems to be a true believer in her cause, Christianity, (as am I), I don’t think it follows that her belief in the gospel would lead to the horrors you have outlined. This seems to be a slippery slope argument, for reasons given below.
The Inquisitions you mentioned, for example, came about due to an unholy alliance between church and state. Under such circumstances, the edicts of fallible man took precedence over men’s consciences and the teachings of Scripture. When the state heads the church, the integrity of the gospel is all too easily compromised.
Jesus never taught His followers to expect power and influence in this life, quite the opposite. He said His kingdom was “not of this world” (John 18:36) and thus implied – in my view – that we should have separation of church and state. Jesus also taught a clear policy of loving one’s enemies, or people you disagree with, which seems to me to be incompatible with causing them harm in any way:
“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;”
(Matthew 5:44)
A person who is truly following Christ’s teachings in the Bible, and viewing life through this filter, will not persecute others or undertake evil acts in support of fallible men. They will act in accordance with their conscience, informed by scripture, to resist evil and
be a blessing to others instead.
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The greatest blessing is for the sinner to be brought to repentant faith in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior through preaching of the gospel.
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Your eternal torture in hell is much worse then me saying that you are a sinner who needs to repent and put your faith in Jesus Christ. Using what you say against the Lord Jesus Christ, His Word and His followers as evidence is only done so that perhaps God will show you that you are indeed a sinner. You are right, I don’t know you, but I have witnessed your disparaging of Christ, His Word and His people so that I can unequivocally say that your claims of besmeared innocence are rubbish. Again, it isn’t to be unkind, but so that Christ might reveal your desperate need of His forgiveness and salvation. That is my desperate hope for you.
Any individual led astray is quite capable of any manner of evil. It doesn’t matter if they are religious or irreligious, that is the terrible predicament of sin. The religious and irreligious systems that have perpetrated evil upon others deserve only condemnation for what they have done. In every instance they have been deceived and left off the truth of the Bible and followed some other way.
The truth changes us from sinners to saints who love God and love others. God is love. For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Jesus Christ looked at him and loved him.
Love is the motivation whether it seems at times confrontational or speaks softly. Loving rebuke can save one from grievous error, where soft acquiescence can do irreparable harm. How much better for you to be rebuked for your error so that you live, instead of being accommodated for your death. Which one then loves you?
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Thank you Colorstorm for sharing the truth about the word of God for the edification of believers. As you said unbelievers won’t believe the Bible, but perhaps through God’s mercy, if they were to come to the Bible without their minds made up and gave the Bible a fair hearing, they could then see what we see and so come to faith in Christ Jesus and turn from their sin, because the Bible alone has the words of eternal life for there we find the words of Christ. God bless you:)
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“ if they were to come to the Bible without their minds made up and gave the Bible a fair hearing, they could then see what we see” – Most of us have been through the Bible, multiple times, and found it seriously wanting. Beyond actually READING the Bible, many of us have studied how the Bible came to be written – something I don’t see most of you doing – and this was an eye-opener in and of itself, which is why Colorstorm chooses to hide most of my posts to you, under the presupposition that ignorance is bliss.
EDITORS NOTE: This poster is partly correct. Most readers are aware of the caustic, unrelated, and trolling comments designed to create simple bedlam. Two examples of same old same old:
“It’s people like ……. and ColorStorm that keep me believing in post-natal abortion.”
“After all, Christ was said to have a devil, Paul a madman” – both mental issues – it would seem that’s a major prerequisite to becoming religious.”
(How in good faith does one answer such garbage. That said, these actually were allowed, just providing context for new readers)
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“After all, Christ was said to have a devil, Paul a madman” – both mental issues – it would seem that’s a major prerequisite to becoming religious.”
Forgive me for interjecting here, ColorStorm, but the truth of the matter is that the “insanity” of Christ and the “madness” of Paul are a thousand times better than all the sanity offered up by the world. All this intellectual gobblygook, all this clinging so fiercely to one’s fear of being perceived as crazy, is just mindless vanity and endless fear.
I know, it’s a nutty idea, but embrace the crazy. The “crazy” to be found in God’s love is so reasonable, so rational, so evidence based, that it’s simply astounding. We never seem to realize how lost we are, how insane, until we get to know Him.
Christ offers redemption, mercy, and everlasting life… free of charge! Meh, I don’t want such a gift. Now that’s the definition of crazy.
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Nope, no forgiveness for you ib, you kinda gotta do something amiss 😉
Yea though, its a never-ending story in a revolving door that just waves at ‘reasonable, rational, and evidence.’
How one denies the undeniable is remarkable.
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I read what tildeb has to say about religion and now I have a somewhat better understanding of where they are coming from, that said I know they are being led by their depraved sinful nature to attack the living God and those who love Him.
Sinful attacks against the truth and the One Who is the Truth will come from many different quarters, but we can look to the example of the apostles and early disciples in the Book of Acts for how we should respond. We just speak the truth, which is the Word of God, and then trust God to do His work.
Anyone who seriously thinks that life came from non-life, or that this planet was seeded by some intelligent life form, much like a demi-god, is not dealing well with reality. They are delusional.
As far as the Holy Scriptures are concerned, let’s see, they were written by the prophets and apostles as led by God. Here is a good example:
They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded. But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people. All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother’s breasts. I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother’s belly. Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help. Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round. They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion. I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaves to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death. For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
Psalms 22:5-18
This Psalm was written centuries before the actual event took place. This exactly describes what took place when Christ was crucified.
Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did. John 19:23-24
And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, And saying, Thou that destroy the temple, and build it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said, He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. Matthew 27:39-43
And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them. And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Luke 24:42-47
Scripture was perfectly fulfilled when Jesus Christ was crucified for the sins of the world. Your lies and innuendo against the truth only proves that you are a depraved sinner, nothing more. Let me ask you a logical question, why would anyone pretend that all of this is true? For power and economic gain? Not for true followers of Jesus Christ. This minority has always been persecuted and despised. If you are a student of history you will know that is true.
Yes, the religious perpetrate a hoax upon the people by proclaiming a false god, but they will always have one thing in common, they despise the Holy Book, the Bible and either add to or take away from it. Now as far as the agreement upon the canon of Scripture, which is what I think you mean, New Testament epistles were recognized as Scripture from the start, as were the gospels, The Old Testament had already been agreed upon, under the direct guidance of God, Who is faithful. The fact that the canon of the NT wasn’t officially recognized until later has nothing to do with the inspiration and preservation of the Scriptures. That the Scriptures were well circulated before this canonization is attested to by the fact that a portion of the Gospel of Mark was recently discovered and dated by a world leading paleographer from the first century AD. Again, though it took sometime, God ultimately led the process and so the books of the NT are the inspired, infallible, inerrant Word of God along with the books of the OT.
Since the Book is a spiritual Book, one must be led by the Holy Spirit to understand it, though it is written to be understood. Unless, one is born again, and has their eyes opened by God, they cannot believe what is written. Did you pray and ask God to help you understand the Bible as you read it? Maybe you should try that approach and see what happens.
May I ask if you at any time in your life ever had consciousness that there is a God who can be known loved and served, or have you always been devoid of even the tiniest briefest thought that there is a God.
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Eliza, I don’t despise the bible at all. I have studied it as an agnostic, compared many different versions, and am very familiar with it. But I also have a knowledge about how these texts were selected, by whom, some of the politics involved with the selection, the rewritings of some of them, the inclusions added at different dates, and many of the gnostic books that were not included. I understand we are reading copies of copies of copies and have no source material.
You presume I draw my conclusions based on considerations – especially emotive considerations – other than this aggregate knowledge. I would love to have access to a divine book that really was the word of some god, but the bible isn’t it. Even the Book of Job you quoted is a compilation from different authors and, again, a copy of a copy of a copy from an oral tradition. Claims that these words were ‘delivered’ from some god to a few selected people doesn’t even withstand a cursory investigation. And this obvious to anyone who reads the bible and compares which gods are being represented in which book because there are obvious differences.
It takes a particular kind of approach to the bible to infuse it with a perfection it does not contain and a coherent message it does not have. To then malign the character of people who bother to do their research into extraordinary claims contained throughout the bible and categorize who is saying what from textual evidence is very rude of you. It requires a hubris and an astounding arrogance to do so. That you clothe it in piety in order to vilify anyone with justified criticism of the books of the bible and then misrepresent conclusions as questionable motivations at the urging of Satan reveals the depth and scope of your own: to misrepresent and slander others on the basis of criticizing that which you deem to be above reproach, namely, your particular religious beliefs.
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Did you ask God to reveal His truth to you while you were studying the Bible? If you can’t see the coherence and the perfection then that is because Satan has blinded your mind. How many times did you read the Bible? Did you read it all the way through? Did you read every book of the Bible? A passing acquaintance doesn’t suffice. You did not respond to the truth I presented above, but, of course, you can’t.
If what I am saying is just religious beliefs, then by all means throw it out with the rest, because then what I say to you has no more standing than anyone else’s religious beliefs. But if I have literally met Jesus Christ, because He is alive, and I know Him, then everything that you say is a slander against the One True Living God.
Right before I met Jesus Christ I was just like you. I disdained religion, I had no use for it. I lived the depraved life that I chose to live. I too had a bad temper. Then I called out to God, in a moment in time, and Jesus Christ met me, and exchanged His life for my life, and I have never been the same, praise His name! Then through His goodness He taught me about the glory, trustworthiness, and wonder of His Word, and that those who deny it as true by corrupting it or disobeying it do not belong to Him. I had virtually no religious instruction. My father raised me as an atheist. That is what I believed. Then I met Him and He changed me and He gave me a new heart to know Him. That is my testimony and it is true!
I just wanted to comment about the books that you say were excluded from the Bible, John the apostle clearly exposed the fallacy of Gnosticism in his first epistle. If God’s Word isn’t true and the NT wasn’t written by the apostles and prophets shortly after Christ ascended into heaven, then why would their be a biblical treatise against this heresy since it arose around that time as an alternative to the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Your glib rejoinders are not prompted by careful examination of the truth, but a hatred of God. Again, that is to be expected since that is the natural bent of the sin nature led astray by Satan, to my sorrow. However, if you will repent and put your faith in Jesus Christ He will forgive you of your sins and give you new life, just like He did me.
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Hey Eliza-
Arch has posted a response which is more mud. I have no interest in turning this thread into a 6 month depraved conversation with his assaults on scripture which are as old as time.
His cry of ‘freedom of speech’ is irrelevant to the truth of God.
You are more than welcome to engage him at your place, although I would not recommend it. 😉
(The exceedingly love of God as shown through Paul, and he is interested in dragging this convo to his level of nothingness? No thanks)
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Again, I don’t disdain religion; I recognize its importance in influencing the development of human society. I do disdain the method of inquiry (that empowers faith to be a vice in all human endeavors save one: a virtue in religious belief) that allows people to be credulous and gullible. Religion is the Mothership of promoting this method (the Napkin Religion is the one true religion because it says so right here on this napkin) so I criticize its pernicious effects.
I don’t hate god. I don’t believe any such critter exists not as a matter of faith but a conclusion that I have no compelling reasons to believe any differently.
I don’t live a depraved life. I am a parent, a spouse, a professional, a law abiding taxpaying and responsible member of my community, a hospice volunteer, and someone who participates fully in my community and its events. Nowhere in any of this resides depravity. My public and private behaviour is exemplary and of an ethical and moral character second to none.
You assign to me all kinds of negative attributes and behaviours I neither have nor exercise… all based on your belief I must possess if I do not share your religious views. Not only do I not share them, I criticize them for their pernicious effects. What you have written demonstrates exactly this. These criticisms I make stand on their own merit and falsely vilifying me with slanderous assertions won’t change their truth value one jot or tittle.
Your accusation about my biblical scholarship as “glib rejoinders” and ‘passing acquaintance’ based on this supposed hatred of your god you mistakenly assume I must maintain is factually wrong as is your ‘suggestion’ that the only way to properly read the bible is by first asking god – an entity for which I have no good reasons to believe exists as a causal agent in the world I inhabit – for him to ‘reveal’ his “truth”. That’s what the bible is advertized by evangelicals to do! But you now stick a caveat on this activity and blame the bible’s failure to convince me of its ‘truth’ value because I didn’t first ‘ask’ for your god’s revelation. I suspect what you really mean is that I didn;t interpret it the same way you did and so the fault must lie with me.
Rubbish.
I read the bible. I read it cover to cover. I re-read it cover to cover. I read different version cover to cover. I compared and contrasted various books and sections of these books with others. I wrote annotated thesis papers on it. I discussed various parts with many esteemed and sophisticated theologians. So don’t presume to tell me that I haven’t read it ‘properly’.
The problem I have, for which I criticize you for intentionally and willfully promoting, is that you ascribe to me characteristics you have assigned to the group you call ‘atheists’ that I do not possess. This meets the very definition of exercising bigotry. And you continue to excuse your use of bigotry in the name of your religious beliefs. You believe I have attributes and behaviours I do not have and then use your religion to try to justify these assumptions you have made in your head that are factually wrong when applied to me in reality.. Your religiously motivated and execrable negative beliefs about my character are not true and I think you need to stop slandering people like I am and stop spreading malicious and vile accusations in the name of your religious beliefs. But I don’t think you can. I don;t think you want to. I think you are so glamored by your religious model and have wrapped your personal identity within its tentacles that you cannot separate your false beliefs about reality from the reality we share.
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“This Psalm was written centuries before the actual event took place. This exactly describes what took place when Christ was crucified.” – I agree with you completely, Eliza, it was – the anonymous authors of the Gospels went back into such OT prophecies, and pulled out what they needed to concoct the greatest story ever sold.
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Well, that is a good answer except that there were Jews in Jerusalem who were intimately knowledgeable about the crucifixion and knew the OT prophecies who when presented with the truth put their faith in Christ. They would have known if what was told them did not take place and they would have scoffed and exposed the lie. We see however, the Jewish authorities coming up against indisputable and irrefutable fact over and over again. Those who believed did so even though it cost them everything.
The most important point in the gospel account is that God foretold Jesus would arise from the dead and He did. There is no body. This is the message that was boldly proclaimed and if there had been a body it would have been very simple for the Roman and Jewish authorities to produce to stop the spread of faith in Christ because the gospel message turned the world upside down. The fact that faith in Christ came about during the first half of the first century is beyond dispute. The fact that most if not all of the apostles died for their faith is beyond dispute. Why would they die for a lie? The fact that the early believers in Christ were persecuted and murdered for their faith in Jesus Christ is also without dispute. They either saw Jesus Christ resurrected or knew those who had seen Him after He arose from the dead.
The fact that Saul became Paul is beyond dispute. Why would he do that? For acclaim, position, and power? Whatever, the accounts of his life show he lived a very hard and physically destitute life. He was beloved by those who knew him. They wept when he told them they would not see his face again. He testified that he coveted no one’s goods. He loved the people he shared the gospel with. He worked with his bare hands to preach the gospel to others to take away the boasting of those who sought to make merchandise of God’s people. He fought against the false teachers and false apostles, the religious, to protect God’s people. He was a good, wise and just man because of His faith in Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.
Many have met Jesus Christ and put their faith in Him and they can attest to the ministry of His grace, His Spirit and His Word in their lives. You are denying the truth and are to be most pitied. You remind me of that science fiction story about the astronaut who always arrived at a plant just a few short minutes after Christ moved on to the next and refused to accept the evidence of the transformed lives that He left behind. I bet you know that story.
God is good and is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. This includes you. I am praying for you. I know that my grandmother’s prayers availed much for me. She loved me and prayed for me even though my father forbid a relationship with her which I didn’t understand as a child. God saved me despite those intentions of my father, which I heartily accepted before I was saved.
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I would respond to you, Eliza, but CS wouldn’t allow it to publish, of if he did, would so censor it that it would be invalidated, so – sorry he is the way he is —
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Please arch, maybe Eliza’s posts are more to your liking, if she will have you, as your comments are sooooo not related to the post.
Textual criticism, again? Really?
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Colorstorm and Freedom of Speech, HA!
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I would be the very worst of hosts, and the finest of hypocrites, if I acted in opposition to my own policy.
How many times do I have to repeat: this is not a landfill for the endless mockeries of the word of God, the mindless vids, the despicable links, and perpetual ‘articles’ bringing aspersion on the person of Christ.
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Depravity doesn’t mean you are the worst sinner that there is, it means that you are estranged from God because of your sin and can do nothing about it. The majority of people are just the same as you. They still are bound in sin and can do nothing about it. You can not undo your sinfulness. You are stuck with it. Whether or not you accept that you hate God, His Word, and his children doesn’t mean that you don’t. If you loved God, His Word and his children you wouldn’t be carrying on as you are. You are not even indifferent to Him as you claim, because you go after those who know Him, and you read His Word not to know Him but to attack Him and the veracity of the Scriptures. I can say that is true because that is what you do. Don’t lie about it! All liars are cast into hell fire.
You have already proven yourself a lying hater of God which is evidence enough that you are a sinner bound by your sinful nature. I dare you to reach out to God with praise and do anything of your choosing for His glory and honor. Not up to the task? I didn’t think so. You are doing what every sinner does, only you are making a lot of noise about those who believe the Word of God and have the audacity to call you what you are, a sinner.
I say this, not to revile you, but to show you that you need a Savior. There is nothing you can do to change your direction in life. However, Jesus Christ came to set sinners free so they can know God and His amazing love and so be born again through repentant faith in Christ. The umbrage you cast my way is worth it if God will perchance open your eyes so that you can see yourself as a sinner, repent and put your faith in Christ.
Was there nothing about the Word of God or Jesus Christ that in the least way softened your heart and enlightened your mind while you read through the text twice? Be careful what you say, because you will have to give account for it to God. If you saw that glorious love in even the most obscured way, respond to it and pray to God for His forgiveness that you may receive Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior and so be saved from God’s eternal wrath that is set against you because you are a sinner. We are all sinners, and we all need the Savior. Come over to the kingdom of light and leave behind the kingdom of darkness.
My walk with the Lord Jesus Christ has been upheld by His mercy and grace. I do not subscribe to religion, but I believe the Bible is the Word of God, not because someone told me that, but because God revealed it to me. Many of those who I had interactions with who claimed the name of Christ and said they believed the Bible to be the Word of God were false. They didn’t lead me to the revelation of God, His Son and His Word, God did. There wasn’t any religious instruction, but I received godly instruction from the Holy Spirit as He taught me. I am telling you that God will do the same for you if you will humble yourself repent of your sin, your obvious rebellion against Him, and place your faith in Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ please reveal yourself to this one!
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